Chelsea and Manchester United still ahead of Liverpool in the title stakes
Liverpool's only hope for success?
Although you’ve got to give Liverpool credit for coming from behind against Arsenal at the Emirates on Sunday, I’ve seen nothing this season to convince me that the title is heading anywhere but Stamford Bridge or Old Trafford.
I said in August it was going to be a two-horse race and that’s how I still see it. Chelsea and United have been ticking over so far, getting the results without really doing anything special, but one or both of them are going to click at some point and make a real charge.
Liverpool are nothing if not solid but I just can’t see them finding the extra gear a team needs if they want to be champions. They’re still to reliant on Torres and Gerrard and I just don’t think they’ve got enough strength in depth to sustain the challenge in the New Year.
Chelsea have shown uncharacteristic weaknesses this season, especially at Stamford Bridge, but they have really missed Drogba and when he’s 100% again they’ll be a different proposition. Anelka has come in and done a great job but for me Chelsea are still a more dangerous and stronger team with Drogba in the side.
United have been patchy as well. Losing Ronaldo was a massive blow at the start of the campaign but he’s starting to show the form of last season and if he continues to improve with every game, anything is possible.
For me, though, the biggest advantage United have over Chelsea is the fact they’ve already played their tricky away games. They’ve been to Stamford Bridge, Anfield and the Emirates, as well playing at Everton, Spurs,Villa and Man City, which means they’ve got the kinder fixture list heading into the New Year.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the title race was as tight as it was last season, maybe even going down to the final day. I’d still put my money on United but the truth is, at this stage, it could go either way.
Written by Gary Pallister and previously published on 4sportsake.com.
I think at the turn of the year will bring Liverpools down fall!!
I really hope that Liverpool have a good go at the title this year but I am not too sure if they will last!!
I fully agree with this assessment. I’ve seen nothing that changes the pre-season predictions of another Chelsea/Utd showdown.
I still think that Liverpool and Chelsea, having dropped 8 and 9 points respectively out of their last 15, have left the door wide open for Utd. when they could have applied significant pressure. Utd. will have returned from the Club World Cup thinking that Christams came early, when the looked at the table!
Quote 1: “Chelsea have shown uncharacteristic weaknesses this season, especially at Stamford Bridge, but they have really missed Drogba and when he’s 100% again they’ll be a different proposition”
Quote 2: “They’re still too reliant on Torres and Gerrard and I just don’t think they’ve got enough strength in depth to sustain the challenge in the New Year.”
So its okay for Chelsea to be tipped by you in favour of Liverpool, even though what you say about both clubs is technically the same. Chelsea are rubbish at the moment without Drogba, and Liverpool need Stevie and/or Torres. Well, I think we’ve shown enough ability and spirit to cope without Torres, and WE ARE TOP OF THE TABLE. For God’s sake, it really annoys me that people can be so narrow minded.
I’m sick and tired of everyone kissing Chelsea and Manu’s backsides, just because thats where the money is and where the success has been, respectively. Liverpool have worked very hard so far this season and the past few seasons, and yes, once Torres returns, we will be an even better side. A good side can only do so much without top strikers, be it Liverpool, Manu or anyone. Your points as quoted above validate that, but still everyone is tilted towards the money.
God, if we’re top without Torres, what will we be like once Torres comes back? Have you forgotten that he scored 34 goals in half a season in his first year in the Premiership?
And the reason we’re top? Maths people. We’re top because we have scored more points than any other team, regardless of how we’ve done it. So for crying out loud, get off the media gravy train and exercise a little objective thought about why certain teams are where they are before you start spewing out such bandwagon trash.
Rant over.
JoeJoe: Get back to me in March/April. The analysis IS objective….it’s you who are not, and I’m afraid you are letting yourself in for a big disappointment.
Quality in key positions and lack of strength in depth is Liverpool’s problem and it will remain so. Most Liverpool fans are keeping their powder dry because they realize this. Rafa needs more money and to spend it better before a title challenge willl come from Anfield.
Closing your eyes and wishing doesn’t work my friend.
Well, fortunately for Liverpool supporters; nobody cares what you have to say Gary. Liverpool are in first place, and have shown that they can maintain the top spot even without the scoring contributions of Fernando Torres. Chelsea is dreadful at home, United are less than impressive, and arsenal will be lucky to qualify for champions league football next season. Robbie Keane has finally found his form, Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres are now fit, the Premier League is ours.
Who are these two players the media is talking about? Xabi Alonso and Riera? Those two players are the reason we are challenging, yes Gerrard has 11 goals but ask any Liverpool fan whose been the best player this season, stand up mr Xabi Alonso who deserves the media attention for keeping us top, a class act and to think he almost went in the summer, thank God Juventus didnt know how good he actually was either.
Weren’t Arsenal top at this point last year? Look what happened to them and remember the last few seasons of on-off form. When United and Chelsea find form ‘pool will be eating dust. I reckon it will be about the time rotations start for the CL
“For me, though, the biggest advantage United have over Chelsea is the fact they’ve already played their tricky away games. They’ve been to Stamford Bridge, Anfield and the Emirates, as well playing at Everton, Spurs,Villa and Man City, which means they’ve got the kinder fixture list heading into the New Year.”
so has Liverpool played this tricky away games and with torres back, they’ll just get better.
So you have seen nothing of Liverpool till now besides the comeback at the Emirates to convince you that the title is heading anywhere but Stamford Bridge or Old Trafford??? What about Liverpool coming back from behind to register a win against the great United or Liverpool doing what no other club in Europe including mighty United had done for a long long time by ending the Blues record at the Bridge?or Liverpool showing strenght and character to comeback from behind to win and take all three points against Wigan, Boro, and Man City? If Liverpool are not going to mount a serious title challenge if they remain reliant on Torres and Gerrard then the same ould be said of United and Chelsea of their reliance on CR7 and Drogba respectively
Hellllllloooo….. Good morning… Ppl wake up!!!
Have u all forgotten Liverpool have beaten both Chelsea and Msnchester United without any contribution from Torres and Gerrard!!!
Moreover we have dropped abt 9 pts… Which could have easily put us far ahead of the Ronaldo United and Chelsea…. Talking on player dependency…. Man U is entirely dependent on Ronaldo….. So better if you all see it that way!!
And more to fear… We have excellent Defence and a lot of hard working players like Kuyt, Keane, reira and not to forget xabi…. Our best player this season!!!
So ppl open ur eyes…. Liverpool era is back again!!!
@nameless, EPL and Gaurav, as I said, I’ll still be here in April/May…..I look forward to having a chat…..!
Why not BD? That sounds great. Im a great cook. Will bring something to munch on while we have our little talk. Humble Pie sounds good to you??? :lol
oh my god the worst article of the year!! how do you say that liverpool rely on gerrard and torress, ask yourself where was them same two players for the duration of the man u’re game? sure gerrard came on for 15-20 mins but done nothing, were was nando for the 12 games he missed out of 19? only starting 6 league games?? winning 7 or them 12 he missed and only been defeated once, not to mention wins against psv(with out both), marseille(without torress), and games with athelitco madrid… were top of the league, comfortably in the last 16 of the champions league, and in the fa cup all this with out torress for most the season and gerrard out for games. wat bout carra, alonso, mascerano, reira, reina, but you know liverpool rely way to much on torress and gerrard haha
time for people to give liverpool the credit we deserve, as we do to your teams!
Y.N.W.A
all of you know, that in the last seasons liverpool will become even stronger in the second half of the season… so… beware united and chelsea …with torres back in the team, keane finding his scoring form and the depth in the squad (yes , we have it), gerrard stepping up a gear, you all will see LFC on top of the table come may…
BD…. ill be there for you…..u r nt the only Anti-Liverpool fan i m dealing with
guys the fact remains if you look at the fixtures and the table, all man utd need to do to get back on top is win their games in hand and beat liverpool at the theater of dreams which will not be too much of a problem, add to that the fact that we have all the big games at home and are traditionally the strongest side in the league after christmas and its bye bye to liverpools ttile dreams this year.
livepool have a good first XI but the bench is crap and that is what will cost em this season.
The title will stay at old trafford this season.
‘ Liverpool dont have depth ‘, ‘ Liverpool bench is crap’, ‘ Liverpool are totally dependent on Gerrard and Torres’…….. Cmmon ppl… I m sick and tired of this…. Dont u have any new excuses to rule Liverpool out????
Let’s talk about Manchester United or rather Ronaldo United…. You just take out Ronaldo and what do you have- A bunch of oldies and a dozen of noobs (2 exceptions Rooney and Vidic)!!
And you say Man U will be on top if they win their games in hand- hehe….. You gonna play Chelsea and Wigan in 3 days gap….we oll see what can they make of that!!!!
Liverpool beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge without Torres… Its gonna be easier at Old Trafford with him ; )
why is it that you ppl can not realize that Liverpool is a threat???
Torres
Keane
Gerrard
Xabi
Reira
Kuyt
Arbeloa
Aurelio
Carragher
Agger
Reina
Diego
Yossi
Babel
Mascherano
Dossnea
Skertel
Hyypia
Pennant
Insua
NGog
Plessis
Show me where is crap…. And dont comment if you dont know d player!!
Gaurav…I agree that Pool is a threat. The Chelsea game at Everton over the weekend (though they lost Terry) was unimpressive. Chelsea have a geat squad and are showing they have depth by finding draws with 10 and still winning matches. God forbid they start winning at home again. I don’t think it’s a 2 horse race at all. Arsenal and Villa I don’t think will be there at the end of season They’re fighting for 4th and Villa may just pull that one out.
There’s 3 major contenders this year. Obviously they’re: Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool. Trying to leave Biases aside I still think Man Utd will be there at the top come May. It WILL come down to the last day of the season. If United isn’t there then I wish Pool the best of Luck. I’d rather see anyone there other than Chelsea. Chelsea have the tougher of the roads. They have a great lift with Drogba back (we’ll see how long that last), but have all the away games. Pool and United have the home advantage as stated. So if the “Two-Horse-Race” angle is true it’s more so between United and Pool rather than Chelsea. It’s been a surprising and great season thus far. I can guess it’ll only get better.
As for relying on Ronaldo…ok. Maybe so. We do look a better squad with him on the pitch. We need Rooney to stay healthy for a chance at the title though. He’s more of the back bone to the squad the CR is, but how can you say Rooney and Vidic are the only exceptions? Ferdinand? Rafeal has showed a lot of potential coming on and scoring against Arse. Berba hasn’t been outstanding, but his passing has been key. Tevez of course has been off-form but with his goal at Stoke I think it’ll bring his head outta the sand a little.
There’s a lot of top quality in the Premier League, and to say that any of the starting XI of any squad is rubbish is ignorant. I’d love to see Alonso leave for Emirates, but that won’t happen this season. It would definitely give hope to United’s defense at title with the players from Pool spread about the league. We’ll have to chat again once April/May rolls around. I see Chelsea falling 4th and Villa taking 3rd!!! hahaha
Pennant is crap!!! always has been. I think he’s the reason ya’ll lost the Champions league 2 years ago. But other than that as I said before. Pool have a great squad. Keane is beginning to finally mesh well with the team. That’s a scare for the rest of the teams in the league.
Pennant was actually one of our best players in Athens when we lost the CL to Milan, though that performance was atypical for him.
As has been stated, to call LFC dependent on Torres is arguing in our favor. We haven’t had him most of the season, and are still top. Once he’s back? Things can only get better.
Alonso has been sensational this year, Keane is starting to play better, Kuyt is better than he was last year, Mascherano is one of the best holding midfielders in the world (and captain of Argentina), Carra, Agger, and Skrtel are all top class CBs, Arbeloa has been having a very good year, and Riera has been very good for us so far.
As for the so-called lack of strength in depth? One of Skrtel and Agger will be relegated to the bench when they are both fit along with Carra. Babel is an option on the bench and is always dangerous (United game this year, Arsenal in the CL last year). Lucas is a great young talent as backup in the midfield, having played a big part in the tie against Inter last year as well as looking better recently. Insua is a young LB with a lot of potential, as shown by him taking the first team spot from Dossena currently in the absence of our normal first choice LB Aurelio. Hyypia is a legend and though he has lost some pace is still a solid defender. Benayoun is another useful bench player who has contributed some very important goals since coming to Anfield. Plessis, Ngog, El Zhar, Darby, and Spearing are all young players who have impressed with the first team when given a chance as well. Then there is also Nemeth who has shone for the Reserves and Pacheco who showed he is capable during the preseason.
I’d say our first team is clearly very strong with the likes of Gerrard, Alonso, Masch, Agger/Skrtel/Carra, Keane, and Torres once he returns. In addition, we do have depth in our squad (unlike Arsenal did last year when they predictably faded out).
Write us off if you want, it doesn’t much matter to (some of) us fans or the players. All we do is take it one game at a time.
I agree with the assesment even though I am a lifelong Liver
pool fan. The team lacks the quality in midfield to challen-
ge for the title. Too many points lost against weaker teams
who come to defend mainly because Liverpool’s game depends
heavily on the counter-attack. This is Benitez’s tactics.
That’s how Valencia played as well.
When the team needs to break orga-
nized defenses they miserably fail to create chances or
take the few ones they create. MU or Chelsea have midfield
players who can create chances out of nowhere and strikers
who can take them even under pressure. Torres and Keane
are world-class strikers but they don’t get the passes they
need when playing against tight defences. Gerrard and Alonso
only can provide with creativity in the midfield but I don’t
think they can carry the team. Liverpool lacks quality in
the flanks and when any of those players is injured. Their
holding midfielders and defenders are pretty good but they
can crack under pressure. And Reina makes plenty of mistakes
especially on high balls even though he is a very good goal
keeper overall. The only reason that LFC can still challenge
is because MU and Chelsea have been losing points but this
is not going to last for long. MU has an easier schedule and
Chelsea with Drogba in-form will only get better. CL is the
only chance for LFC to win something this season since this
is primarily a cup competition and LFC can win on the coun-
terattack although I doubt they can overcome Barcelona, MU
or Mourinho’s Inter Milan in 2 games.
And by the way Pennant is a mediocre midfielder to say the
least.
JK…took the words right out of my mouth. You’re view seems to have the most logic of Pool fans. I still think Pool have a better chance in the Premier than you give them, but let’s hope I’m wrong and you’re right.
Glory,Glory Man Utd!
I just love it when ppl still put out the same old controversial issues with no new substance, just to gain popularity or comments in their posts. C’mon, there must be some creativity left within you. Or you just can’t take it that Liverpool is gonna win the title?
Herman, its not other people that put out the ‘controversial’ issues. I base my assessment quite a bit on reading what Liverpool fans say themselves.
After Liverpool were out of the PL race last January and the initial blood letting against the owners, the Liverpool fans engaged in some objective assessment of their own squad (across the many Blogs and chat rooms) and the assessment went something like this:
There was widespread support for the fact that Arbeloa, Aurelio, Yossi, Pennant, Kuyt and others who have since gone were not of the required standard to win the PL. Now all things are relative and I’m not saying that any of the above are bad players but none would get near the Chelsea or Utd first team or bench.
If you accept that there was a gap between Liverpool and the top 2 last season (and in the same Liverpool fan discussions they clearly did) then let’s look at what has happened in the interim in terms of personnel.
Liverpool shipped out Finnan, Riise, Kewell, Crouch and Voronin and brought in Dossena, Degan, Reira and Keane.
The back-up full-backs have made no difference and Dossena has been given a hard time by Liverpool fans. Riera has been decent but no more and, at 27, his pedigree was already well established before he arrived. Not a player any of the big clubs in Europe were interested in and he’s done nothing to convince otherwise. Then there’s Keane. A proven 20+ goal a season PL striker who’s had a bad start. A couple of goals and suddenly Liverpool fans are all over him. If he does pick-up from here it will be a plus for Liverpool but that’s the only real quality difference from last season.
Of course you can also generate improvement by bringing thru young talent or when young players step-up a level. Two of the big hopes for Liverpool this season have failed in this respect. Babel has had a few cameos but, having just turned 22, has not come through and commanded a 1st team place. Lucas looked promising last season but has not impressed this and as recently as 2 weeks ago I read a liverpool fan thread berating him. On the plus side Insua looks like a find.
So whatever way I add it up and analyse it I can’t make any significant case for improvement in personnel at Liverpool this season.
Of course they could overtake their rivals if their rivals disimproved. Chelsea added Bosingwa and Deco and Utd Berbatov, with Evans and Rafael coming through from the reserves. No disimprovement I’m afraid.
So what are the other factors? Well Chelsea have had to deal with significant injuries to a long list of key players (Ballack, Essien, Carvalho, Cole, Drogba etc.) and, despite this are still right on the pace.
Utd. have had their own problems with Hargreaves, Carrick, Scholes, Ronaldo and Fletcher and the added distraction of the European Super Cup and the Club World Cup as well as a fixture list that has given them all 3 of their top 4 rivals away so far and 7 home games v 10 away (Chelsea and Liverpool are 10H and 9A).
The above are factors that influence peoples view that Chelsea and Utd both have a gear or 2 to go up whereas Liverpool don’t.
Now I could also take Gaurav’s (#18) list of Liverpool’s 2nd string and compare it to Utd and Chelsea and show how it in no way measures-up but that would take too long.
The above are the reasons why popular opinion, football journalists, pundits and the bookies don’t back Liverpool for the title. It’s not a slight at Liverpool it’s objective assessment and, as I said, much of the input has come from views expressed by Liverpool fans themselves.
That’s about as good as I can do to explain my position.
Starting XI:
Torres vs. Rooney vs. Drogba
Keane vs. Berbatov vs. Anelka
Gerrard vs. Scholes vs. Lampard
Xabi vs. Carrick vs. Ballack
Reira vs. Giggs vs. J. Cole
Kuyt vs. Ronaldo vs. Deco
Arbeloa vs. Evra vs. A. Cole
Aurelio vs. Da Silva vs. Bosingwa
Carragher vs. Ferdinand vs. Terry
Agger vs. Vidic vs. Carlvaho
Reina vs. Van der Sar vs. Cech
Bench:
Diego vs. Neville vs. Ferreira
Yossi vs. Scholes vs. Essein
Babel vs. Tevez vs. Kalou
Mascherano vs. Hargreaves vs. Mikel
Dossnea vs. O’Shea vs. Mineiro
Skertel vs. Brown vs. Alex
Hyypia vs. Evans vs. Belleti
Pennant vs. Nani vs. Malouda
Insua vs. Fletcher vs. Bridge
NGog vs. Nani vs. Di Santo
Plessis vs. Park vs. Ivanovic
ADD:
Lucas vs. Possebon vs. Stoch
El Zhar vs. Wellbeck vs. N/A
Cavalieri vs. Kuzschak vs. Cudicini
Itandje vs. Foster vs. Hilario
you all can make the assessment. There’s the squad and I actually ran out of chelsea players and had to improvise a little. Bored at work, but The bench of United and Chelsea look better suited to go farther in a campaign. They have a little more class, but as I stated. Pool have the lead now and with their game at St. James today… I predicted a 1-1 Fulahm-Chelsea game and that’s where it stands at the moment. Liverpool are well in the title race, but I still see Man United pulling it off. Possibly another Double year and at best a Treble. I’ll agree with SAF. A Quad would be unrealistic.
Seriously, I love it when we can over analyze all night about this. But if you have the balls, just call it…can u say for sure ManU will beat Boro in Old Trafford? Look, whether you guys like it or not, you have to give credits to a lot of teams this season. Underdogs are winning and nicking points here and there. No matter what you say about the players above, they have not been playing well. Doesn’t matter how much they cost or their pedigree, they have not performed the last 2 matches. Will they go the distance? Dunno. But pls, don’t count out Liverpool with your paper analysis, because this ain’t your usual season.
see how we hammered Newcastle today? I really wish Nando had of been playing in this one because then we really could have shown everyone how much we rely on Gerrard and Torres
didnt Newcastle get a point at Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford?
make me laugh, hypia although old is better than belleti reina is hands down better than cech and van der sar
how many goals has 2 goas along with j.cole and giggs with zero
torres a much younger and better player than drogba and rooney
gerrard is 2 times the player of lampard and scholes
and the same goes for xabi alonso
carra is as good if not better than terry and rio
agger/skertle would both take a first team position in either team
arbeloa ,a cole and evera and bos all fall in the same catogry that they find themselfs too far up the pitch that they get cought out at the back alot
and given liverpool still have squad members on the bench like mascerano, kyut, babbel, ngog etc why the hell is that worse than both chelsea and united’s(which are a much ”Richer” clubs) in terms of title chances i dont know. it only takes 16 players to win a title, and liverpool are have at least that in capeable players.
yet again give liverpool the respect that liverpool give other clubs.
Y.N.W.A
so according to Jason Man U has better bench than Liverpool….. But helllllo.. Its not the bench that wins you the title…. And if you take best XI of Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U combined, u ll only find Ronaldo
Torres
Berbatov
Gerrard
Xabi
Joe Cole/Reira
Ronaldo
Carragher
Terry
Bosingwa
Cole/Arbeloa
Reina/Cech
BENCH
Vidic
Cech
Rooney
Drogba
Evra
Lamard
So as all can see …. Man U love their benchwarmers!!!
It may be me but i think Tevez, Drogba maybe even Keane would all get ahead of Berbatov
that case it wud either Rooney/drogba…. Bt compared players as per Jason’s list
BD Condell,
You seem to be a permanent fixture in any discussion about Liverpool, I wonder why ? Liverpool will always be Man U’s greatest rival and after 4.5 years Rafa has got the club back where they belong. Watch out my friend cos nothing lasts forever and Sir Alex will retire soon.
Man UTD is Nr#1 In the premier league and liverpool is in statistics nr # 20 hhehe
And the European Cup ?? Ho Ho. Although perhaps you’re only counting from 1992? After all most people have only short memories don’t they Mr Iman-Ani. The old First Division is history to be fogotten, I think not.
I stated prevously that I’m not counting Liverpool out. I was merely putting the teams up to show the quality of the bench. If we have a starter hurt then they’re easily replaced. I think Man Utd have to look out for Liverpool with the title more so than Chelsea this year. But Christmas came late for Manchester. Gerrard arrested this morning for “destorying” a guy’s face ealry this AM. I’m sure he’ll get off with a slap on the wrist, but if the alternative happens then that’s a huge blow for Pool. Still…it’ll be a great title race this season and more than the 2-horse that this article claimed.
it wasn’t for beating up someone but bcoz he was there…. He Is not the only1 arrested
ahhhh i see.
@Herman #18: “can u say for sure ManU will beat Boro in Old Trafford?”
Well, yes, I can say for sure that utd will beat Boro at OT!
@Jofrad #33: “You seem to be a permanent fixture in any discussion about Liverpool, I wonder why ?”
No! I’m just a permanent fixture, period. Last season Arsenal were the story and Arsenal fans were enraged that nobody was backing them for the title. Inexperience and lack of depth were given as the reasons. Wonder how that panned out?
I like good debate on the issues. I’ve laid out clearly in #25 why I conclude as I do but none of you Liverpool fans have addressed these points. I’m sure you will have different views but let’s have them if that’s the case.
Normally, you say it before the game starts. I doubt you are even convinced about their performance after 2 narrow victories against Stoke and Boro. I doubt the easy fixtures ahead are going to do ManU any good going forward, if they keep on wasting chances. Yesterday’s game saw 34 shots, with 8 SOTs, and 1 goal for ManU. Victories nonetheless. But I still say let’s look at form, .5-1 is a thrashing, 1-0 is a narrow victory, 2-2 is points dropped. Nothing to suggest the long run, but good indication of current form and what to expect for the next game. Really no need to over analyze the bench, is there?
BD Condell, #39,
Liverpool are up and running now as major contenders for any title or trophy. They have some world class players and strength in depth. They also have great resilience when the chips are down which I think Arsenal is sadly lacking. Rather than indulge in a futile debate comparing player with player from other teams I prefer to let my team do the talking on the pitch.
As I’ve said before, nothing lasts forever, but Liverpool are back in a big way. Lets hope the ownership issue can be resolved and then the club can really plan for the future. Many many people over the years have written off both the City of Liverpool and Liverpool Football Club but they always come bouncing back. Its in the air you know !
@Herman: Actually I’m delighted with the 2 1-0 wins, coming back from Japan at a difficult time of the year. Utd were by far the better team in both games. You get plenty of games like this every season where teams set out their stall to defend and frustrate.
The real quality of a PL championship team is being patient and ultimately winning these type of games.
Fulham, West Ham and Hull anybody?
Jofrad, fair enough, you don’t want to look for reasons for a turnaround. I’m just saying I base my view on logical analysis, not foolproof, but always a good guide.
Liverpool are 3rd favourites with the bookmakers at this point by the way, always a good pointer. Again, not foolproof, but flying in the face of what the majority believe can be setting yourself up for a big disappointment. That’s all I’m saying.
watching the english premier league from an objective point of view i cant believe the way liverpool are disregarded. They have shown a different side this year by going and winning games rather than playing for a point. also, to say that they are nothing without gerrard and torres? with no ronaldo/rooney or drogba/lampard? circumstances and injuries play a part, obviously but thats just your luck and could happen at any team. i dont think that Man Utd a few years ago would have came close to winning the league without Chelsea’s injuries to all of their central defenders/Cech and without Ronaldo staying fit. i just hope rafa doesnt put his eggs in the champions league basket if a few results go badly.
#42 Celtic Fan,
Never mind “an objective point of view”, lets a British Premier League with the best of the Scottish clubs. ( I’m ducking !)
Exactly Celtic fan, the days of Liverpool being a two man team are long gone, maybe that was in 2005 even 2006 but not now, going into 2009, yes even though Torres has been injured a lot this season i still think he will be our top goal scorer whilst Gerrard second but last year Liverpool had 6 different players get over 10 goals. Yes Gerrard got over 20 because he is a phenominal player and Torres over 30 for the same reason but how many do they have together this year 18? 18 goals is hardly massive club saving contribution
#42 BD Condell,
Please indicate where I have stated that Liverpool will win the Premier League. Major contenders for any trophy or title is what I contend, so there’s absolutley no danger of a “big disappointment” on my part. But I tell you one thing my friend, I’m really looking forward to the return of a fully fit Fernando Torres – Liverpool’s best buy since Kenny Dalglish.
BD….. You seem to be more of a anti-Liverpool fan rather than Man U fan……
So how does it feel to support a team of divers (such as Ronaldo and Nani…..remember his headbutt) : )
@Gaurav #47: Well I see you’ve run out of ideas!
Still haven’t addressed my points in #25 have you?
And I must refer back to your post #10:
“Have u all forgotten Liverpool have beaten both Chelsea and Msnchester United without any contribution from Torres and Gerrard!!!”
Do you actually watch Liverpool? Gerrard played the entire game against Chelsea and came on in the 68th minute against Utd.
You also failed to notice that Chelsea were without Essien, Ballack, Joe Cole and Drogba, but why let facts get in the way of a biased assessment!
just give me another day…. To gt to my comp and I reply to all ur doubts
I back Liverpool to do well in the league but come up just short. I enjoy the team in general, but they have a few weaknesses. When everyone is healthy they are the worse of the big three, considering everything Chelsea can throw at you and the world class players Manchester have at nearly every position. It is clear that scheduling will play a big part, and that has been an advantage to them so far in the season. None of the other teams have been on good form BUT Liverpool and it has taken alot for for them to get to the top. But when injuries come into play, there is a lack of depth no amount of repeatedly bashing your ideas on others will disprove that. We want to respect Liverpool as a challenger, but with the same respect can you duly note that both the other teams have generally been together much longer and they both don’t rely on a player hitting form. A win of 1-0 or 2-1 is still 3 points in the bag. And teams still go to Anfield trying to win and get there behinds handed to them. Lower teams do not come to Stamford Bridge or Old trafford with ideas of 3 points. And this hurts the possibility of producing a big win. As both teams rely on pace and width to provide themselves with great chances. This may be no different than Liverpool, but the fact remains that teams try and play atleast 10 men behind the ball at both those stadiums and at Anfield they dont. Work with us and be objective! We want your team to win and we all want it to come to the final day no matter which team you support. Its exciting to see this many highly talented teams. And yes, minnow clubs are nicking points off all the big clubs and its those teams that may decide the finish.
I have never met a Liverpool fan who can sit down and say his side lacks here and there, like ANY other football fan can for his/her club. Just prove us wrong!
“JoeJoe: Get back to me in March/April. The analysis IS objective….it’s you who are not, and I’m afraid you are letting yourself in for a big disappointment.
Quality in key positions and lack of strength in depth is Liverpool’s problem and it will remain so. Most Liverpool fans are keeping their powder dry because they realize this. Rafa needs more money and to spend it better before a title challenge willl come from Anfield.
Closing your eyes and wishing doesn’t work my friend.”
But it isn’t objective. You say we lack strength in depth….two seasons ago I would have agreed with you. However, Rafa’s record in the transfer market has yielded the following (this taken from another forum I am a member of):
Arbeloa (2.5million from deportivo) – Easily worth 5 million now…Has become capped by spain since joining us. Good squad player who can play either RB or LB. Very good at Man marking.
Reina (7m from villareal) – Now where good GK are at a premium, what a signing by Rafa, A top goal keeper who has got better year by year, easily the best keeper in the PL. Not only good between the sticks but a TOP PERSON, who brings good vibes to the team and as said by SG could be future captain. If sunderland spend 9.5 million on that scottish keeper, then Reina is easily worth 15m+ but realistically at 24, I would value him at 12million.
Alonso (10.5 from real soc) – Classy CM- Who has sat nav in his boots and can distribute the ball wherever he wants, not many in the game can pass and hit the ball as sweet as Xabi. Had a bad 18months but that was due to injuries, as the saying goes class is permenant and form is temp, this guy is all class, keeps us ticking and is a vital cog to our midfield. We saw against Preston first hand what a difference he makes. Easily worth 17m
Daniel Agger (5m from Bronby) – Class left sided CB, very few CB have a sweeter foot than Agger, he can pass and shoot like he was a midfielder. Only 24 he can only get better. This was a true bargain…with players like Anton Ferdidand going for 8m and Upsen touted at 10m and villa paying 10m for cuellar, etc…this shows you the snip we have got on our books. AC millan 8,5 million….don’t make me laugh, that is a joke of an offer and Rafa should laugh in their face. This guy is easily worth 12million…with time on his side….he can only get better.
Martin Skrtl (6.5m from Zenit) – It makes you laugh when you hear that Skrtel is our most expensive defender, Aged 24 this tough tacking defender is a perfect partner for Agger in the future. No-nonsense defending in the carragher mode, this guy will go through a ton of bricks (maybe goes in too early) excellent signing in the vidic mode who I can see being at Anfield for years to come. (easily worth 12million+
Last but not least…
Torres – (20m from A.Madrid) – I don’t have to say much on this guy, 20million soundes like peanuts now and fergie must be tearing his hair out that he did not put that money up for this wonderkid only aged 24. With many clubs struggling to find that special NO9 (who has pace, strength, can dribble, head, shoot) we have him in torres. Worth currently…50million.
My post continued:
And I haven’t even mentioned Riera, Kuyt, N’Gog, Insua, Nemeth, Cavalieri, Mascherano etc.
So you try and tell now me we lack strength in depth fella.
@#51: No problem. Here we go:
Full-back: Arbeloa, Aurelio, Dossena, Degan; all (at best) average players and wouldn’t get near the Chelsea or Utd squad. Rafa is supposedly after Glen Johnson….yet another full-back, so what does that say?
Wide Midfield (wing): Babel hasn’t realised his potential. Riera is average (he’d done little to impress up to the age of 26 when Liverpool bought him so hardly a surprise.)
Benyoun is a bit player and Pennant is permanently out in the cold.
Forward: Like last season, nothing to back-up Torres. Keane has been poor and Kuyt is all perspiration and no inspiration.
CM: Lucas has gone backwards and was awful against Stoke.
The analysis last season, not least by Liverpool fans, was that the team was weak in the full-back and wide midfield positions and needed another quality striker to support Torres. Nothing has changed in any of those positions this year. Keane may come good but so far his contribution hasn’t helped much.
Granted, the ’spine’ of the team is strong and has reasonable cover but again, that was the case last season.
N’Gog, Insua, Nemeth, Cavalieri: Insua looks promising but the other 3 have not emerged yet so will not be a factor this season.
Try listing the ‘flops’ Benitez has bought, not least the players who only lasted a sigle season (which always indicates poor judgement by a manager).
Also Alonso, who has been excellent this season, would have been out the door if Benitez had got his way in the summer!
# 52
What an utterly futile exercise, (our full back is better than yours) you should get out more.
I take it you are a Mancunian ?
@#53: Why not FINALLY read my post number 25 and address the points I make.
To quote Liverpool fans towards the end of last season (if not on an ongoing basis) “we are weak in the wide positions (full-back and wide midfield and need support for Torres.)
As I detail in #25 (that and more) and again in #52 none of that has been addressed so where do you conclude that the (obvious) gulf of last season has been bridged?
Address the points and you won’t look such a plank.
Good result at Stoke by the way.
#54,
Have you ever heard the expression “The whole is greater than the sum of the parts” ? That was why Shankly and Paisley were so successful.
Football is a TEAM game something in this age superstars seems to be forgotten. The key to success is teamwork, team spirit, continuity and stability. Of course money is needed but you cannot buy continued success without these factors as Chelsea and Man City are discovering; these are alsothe reasons United have been so successful in recent years.
Liverpool under Rafa are well on the way to acheiving this and are good enough to win anything going. I don’t really care if none of Liverpool’s players are good enough for Greatest Team In t’World.
You are a Mancunian aren’t you ??
better result at derby by the way x D
it does my head in when people say oh liverpool will never win the title, when you don’t know that for definate. for gods sake we are at the top of the table. we are 4 points ahead of chelsea and 8 points ahead of Man u. Chelsea have been doing crap latley ever since we beat them last year. Liverpool have beaten both Manchester United and Chelsea this season and i am sure we will again when we play them in february and March. Liverpool have just as much a chance of winning the title as Chelsea and Man u if not more. don’t always be so negative about Liverpool they are a good team
@#57: Nobody is saying they are not a good team, of course they are. All I’m saying is that they are not good enough to win the title. Again, I spell out in detail why I think this in #25. It’s clear and in plain english.
It’s alraady slipping away from Liverpool. 14 points from 24 includes 4 draws against opposition you need to be putting away if you want to win the title.
Utd. have taken 20 points from 24, gone to Japan for the CWC in the middle of this AND not conceded a single goal in any of those 8 games.
I know where my money is and why. It’s a no brainer and I’ve just been suggesting to Liverpool fans not to set themselevs up for a major disappointment. Tears will flow on merseyside before too long, believe me!
#58
Its not over yet but Sob Sob.
You are a Mancunian aren’t you ???
Normal service has just been resumed. We apologise for the delay but the fat waiter will soon be removed….permanently!
HUBRIS with all panache and swagger of Ronaldo driving a Ferrari.
You are a Mancunian aren’t you ?
Some of the Liverpool fans on this thread must now be feeling a little embarassed!
Anyone like to reasses their position?
I notice Liverpool fans everywhere are starting to turn on Benitez after the latest ’slip-up’ against Wigan.
#62
I was waiting for you to reappear.
I think to be in the position Liverpool are in considering the ongoing turmoil within the ownership ansd management of the club is quite an achievement.
I for one would be content for Liverpool to win nothing this year if it meant getting rid of Hicks and Gillett. What the fans want above all is stability and a new stadium.
YOU ARE A MANCUNIAN ARE A MANCUNIAN AREN’T YOU ??
Basically… I don’t know whats wrong… I don’t know what to say…. As far as I can comprehend.. It d ATTITUDE.. And not able to kill off games when u r 1-0 up…. Plus why is Rafa so obsessed with Lucas.. It seems he is the only Brazilian soccer player, to have born without skills
We have class… And we have depth for most of the positions… Its just the ATTITUDE… And yeh subsitution problems…… Why d fuck can’t Torres play 90 min, once a week, he is only 24…. You have in form players…. Can’t just Rafa get the right Tactic…. Fire Lucas…. And win!!!!
I’ll tell you what’s wrong; there’s a malaise at the heart of LIverpool caused the the ownership issue which is affecting morale throughout the club. If you were employed by LFC (in any capacity) how would you feel if you knew that after all the damage he’s caused, Tom Hicks is hawking the club round the the world’s financial hotspots, leeking false information to flush out buyers whilst at the same time trying to keep a piece of the action himself ?
The club has no direction whatsoever, Tom Hicks is the owner from hell and Liverpool fans deserve better, a lot better.
Bt how would you justify that brainless Brazilian running in the heart of the field…
Jofrad, kudos for turning-up! I see it’s now the owners fault again!?
This seemed to disappear as an issue when all the LFC fans were declaring that the title was theirs!
You’re right about the turmoil of course but all I was ever saying was that LFC fans should not set themselves up for more disappointment, that objective assessment of their quality v Utd/Chelsea indicated that they were not good enough to win the title this year etc. etc. etc.
I still hold that view and believe that recent events on the field are down to that and nothing else. Not Benitez’s antics, not the internal politics, not the owners, not luck………..just quality of players and depth of squad.
Wrong again BD, success or no success Liverpool are directionless until these 2 cowboys are gone completely. They will hold their first full board meeting for 12 months next week which says it all. I will admit however that Rafa would do himself and the club a favour by keepng his mouth shut.
YOU A MANCUNIAN AREN’T YOU ??
Five points clear and counting!
Counting down that is !
You are a Mancunian aren’t you ? Or when you got interested in football did you just happen to pick the richest club to support ?
By now though… Half of the article has been proved wrong…. Its bye-bye to Chelsea for the time being……… And I hope both Rafa and Keane…. Won’t mind if owners or Lucas leaves!!!
Man U… Let’s see what happens!!!
Really Jofrad, stop letting yourself down!
I thought you had more about you than that!
Straightforward question really BD. What’s the problem ?
MANCHESTER UNITED… Have got the Maximum Number Of fans in the Entire World….Speaking strictly of English Premier League..and the years 1990-2006… Why?? Because they have been the most Successful, Rich team in these years. So you ask any1 who has a very little knowledge of Soccer, “Which club do you support?”. They’ll reply, “Dunno…Manchester United may be!!”, and ask them, “Ever heard of West Ham, Aston Villa or Everton”, and they ll say “No.”
So Most of the fans stick to their first choice. But Some do migrate as they watch more of the Man U matches and see players like Nani and Ronaldo playin’ unfair and then they watch Arsenal play “real football” and they see Liverpool and their glorious past and Chelsea and their Stars and then they pick their favourite team. Well that has been case with me. I supported Man U till they had David. And i personally feel that Ronaldo has never deserved to put on Beckham’s shirt.
@74: And that in a nutshell is why you are what is commonly known as a ‘plastic’ my friend.
Real fans choose their team and stick with them for life.
Your credibility just went to zero with that nonsense!
I m a Kop fan for life….
I am from India where in name of soccer u only had Man U and Brazil.. 5 years back…
And like others… I didn’t watch matches and supported Man U… I though watched Beckham… His freekicks were awesome… But he missed awful lot of penalties…. I supported Liverpool when I started watching full matches.. I was 14
Well the article ended up being spot on. At the time of writing the article, they were 8 points clear and now as i write this they are 7 points behind. The only response to that is…..GAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA……!
You forgot what u did last season with Arsenal or what has happened with you earlier… The show is still not over
@GJ: ????