You might as well roll over and play dead,
Your defeatist attitude is not welcome or needed.

I work in grass roots football and the work of myself and many clubs and footballers are helping the problem and it is a big problem.

You can write your negative article and then bury your head in the sand, but I just want you to know that attitudes can change, it will just take time.

There will always be idiots, but hopefully the people around the idiots will know it’s wrong and stop them.

What is really needed is for FIFA to take this issue seriously with real fines and punishments.

” The best things clubs can do is target local black and Asian communities with cheap tickets ”

why only target asian & black comunities & completely ignore the white comunity ?

I wasn’t suggesting that having black players hasn’t changed anything. I quite agree that the massive changes there have already been in racism becoming less acceptable at football grounds is partly a result of so many black players.

However, James suggested in a previous post that “i think its about time players got out there and protested about this racism so that fans realise their behaviour is unacceptable!”. I just pointed out there have been loads of anti-racism projects and statements but it all does very little IMHO.

I probably agree with every word of your post actually OMG – which worries me a bit.

As for my expirience attending football games Fifth, i do not have a season ticket but attend as many games as i can get time for often with my step dad or brothers i myself have never heard anything from the everton fans to which i remember too recently, although i think something was said by an individual when i was around 8 or 9 although i could not tell you who it was aimed at or even who we were playing i just remember someone shouting back shut up you ####. either way this has nothing to do with the matter and has taken us completely off the point! we need a way to kick racism out of football yet can we realy do this? or does it need to come out of soceity all together?

Sticking more ‘ethnic’ kids into grounds wont help.

Punishment for rascism in football needs to be IMMEDIATE. If thats kicking people out of grounds or penalising the team, I dont know.

Local communities represented at grounds? Most kids that I see are glory grabbing Manure supporters, why would they want to go to West Ham or Wigan or Southend or anyone out of the top 4? Well I could give you lots of reasons, but where it matters in the playground, its all about bragging rights.

‘Having more black players makes no difference’. C’mon Fifth, do you really believe that? If WHU hadnt had the Charles brothers and Best in the sixties, we could probably have been a very different club.

Barnes used to get bananas thrown at him at lots of grounds especially Everton… it was what, the mid 90′s before they had their first black player? Did that influence their behaviour?

Look at Eastern Europe. If they had as many black players in their leagues as we do, you dont think that would make some difference?

James, I gotta agree with the Fifth on kids at games. Kid’s aint stupid and showing them that you can enjoy yourselves at games regardless of mindless minorities is important. I’ve been going to WHU since 79, and unlike Fifth, I have experienced rascism both in and out the ground. Things have changed radically in East London during that time though.

Anyway, this is getting us nowhere. As th emost multicultural nation in Europe, I think the FA needs to do more than have a ‘Kick Rascism Out of Football’ thing going on. It should be more ‘Rascism – Zero Tolerance’

Question is, how do we achieve that?

“£that is why i dissagree with the introduction of arab children into football grounds”

The logical conclusion of that position is that you don’t seek to get more asian, arab etc kids to come to grounds until racism is “solved” in society which will never ever happen 100%.

Fights are extremely rare within football grounds at Premier League level because there is such a high level of security. Stewarding, police presence etc. It would be more difficult to do at Burnley for example than at West Ham (two areas with big Asian populations) because the stewarding and policing would not be as high profile with as much CCTV as a Premier League ground.

I have gone to West Ham on dozens of occasions with Asian friends and there has never been a single problem. However, for the long term if we wish to have football crowds as representative of the local populations you need to target the kids which is where I started from. When I went to West Ham Vs Wigan I took my eldest son and two Asian kids who are friends of the family – none of whom were White. I know an Indian West Ham fan who is one of the few who has been going for years to Upton Park and he looks at any occasional racist comments as no different to walking down the street – and the same when his kids hear things… it’s life as we know it. But by hiding away from it you are not going to solve the problem but make it worse.

So, he and I who have non-white children don’t have a problem taking our kids and it is patronising to suggest -effectively – that we shouldn’t do so because the kids might get upset at racist comments or whatever. Should we have to hide away our kids in shame in case someone is ignorant/racist. This is the view of most non-white people I know who take their kids to games. Others who don’t attend games will probably agree with you.

Genuine question James – what is your experience of attending football matches in England and racism?

you seem to be only thinking of the positives of the situation, “but getting more black and asian fans to attend games is a significant means for reducing racial tensions generally.” but not much is going to change, they hear racism on the streets like you said, and now they will hear racism in the stadium (even if it is just the odd remark by one person) society will not change, i mean just because some racist #### has seen an arab at a football match does not mean he will think to himself ‘oh i best not say anything’ because it is not how their mind works.

that is why i dissagree with the introduction of arab children into football grounds, but bringing the asian comunity into the stadium is fine by me but these people wont change. now can you see that i agree with you but also have other opinions or are you too stuburn to agree that what i am saying is also true to a certain extent.

You don’t think black and asian kids know there is racism and feel it on the street anyway? It is a sad fact of life… but getting more black and asian fans to attend games is a significant means for reducing racial tensions generally. If you got a lot more Asian fans at West Ham it may not be popular with the right wing section of the fans but for the majority it would be a demonstration of local Asian fans supporting their local team which would help generally in community relations i.e. football helping society.

Of course there will still be idiots. I remember Rio Ferdinand coming on as a Sub for West Ham – think it was 1996 and away to Blackburn. A West Ham fan shouted “he’s a nigger” or something like that. Two other fans, myself included, turned around and shouted abuse at the ‘fan’ for being a racist ####. Ferdinand then actually scored later in the game at which point about 10 fans turned around and started further abusing the ‘fan’ who had shouted the racist comment in the first place.

Only when the crowd does something combined with Clubs rooting out these half-wits will real racism be kicked out of football. Friendly kids tournaments and players making statements or wearing T-shirts is an irrelevance.

this could be very intimidating to the arab audience and could even spark off fights. it is bad eneough that white children think this is how you should treat people but do you rely think that putting a child in this sort of environment is logical? and put it in there head that this is the way they should be treated? because even if the full on chants stop, they are bound to hear the odd racial remark shouted by certain individuals.

i dont like the idea of fining the club because it is not the clubs fault and at the time they cannot do anything about it. i think its about time players got out there and protested about this racism so that fans realise their behaviour is unacceptable!