You can’t kick racism out of football
The “Racism” debate has sprung up again, this time in wake of how a section of traveling Newcastle fans abused Middlesbrough’s Ahmed Mido with racist chants. Seeing the quality of the slurs, I have to say the fans must have been drunk beyond hope, but despite the lack of apparent talent it just raises another issue that we have been unable to face up to as football fans.
You cannot kick racism out of football. It doesn’t work that way.
Football and racism are both integral parts of our society and you cannot separate one from the other without tackling the root causes of the problem – that the extremely competitive environment of football coupled with racial differences in a multi-ethnic setting will ALWAYS cause matters to come to a boiling point where racism is often the last step before physical violence takes over.
The competitive spirit in football is such that reasonable, rational people become increasingly irrational and unreasonable with others simply on the basis of identification with a certain club. To put it into perspective, several good friends of mine are not Manchester United fans, but when it comes to arguing about football the emotions always reach a stage where, if you were to let them take over completely, you would value the association with your club over friendship and resort to whatever means necessary (verbal abuse or physical violence, albeit only in extreme conditions) to make your point.
And if we do that with friends, what about strangers?
It has to be said and emphasized that most football banter – whether between fans outside the stadium or through chants in the stands – is good-natured ribbing and while competitive, is non-violent, non-racist and designed to be funny rather than insulting.
However, whenever competition reaches a fever pitch, the good-natured ribbing quickly turns into racism and violence.
Why do you think incidents of fan violence are more common in matches between clubs from different countries than between two clubs from the same country? Familiarity breeds patience, and therefore you are never going to see two sets of fans behave in the Premier League the way they did at Roma, at Sevilla or at Athens. It just won’t happen, because when you are dealing with people and settings you are more familiar with, it’s easier to keep extreme emotions and actions in check.
So what is the final solution? I’m afraid there’s no other answer but to make grass-root societal changes which promote cooperation instead of competition off-the-pitch between opposing fans. No one wants to see traditional rivalries go away or competition to be less fierce, but through promoting cooperation and making fans see each other as members of the same greater community rather than enemies, we can reduce a whole range of problems related to extreme emotions evoked by football.
You can’t kick racism out of football – people will always be prejudiced, whether they carry their prejudice on their sleeves or deep inside them. What you can do is manage the extreme emotions that competition brings around, and channel them into cooperation so that the next time
In England, it has already happened for certain ethnicities, and I’m sure that in time it will happen for everyone else as well. But it needs to be a concentrated effort, not just in England but elsewhere in Europe and around the world as well.
And it starts with consciously separating the sphere of competition from the sphere of cooperation, especially for the people who are most affected by football – the fans.
Comments are most welcome.
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Racism is NOT the main issue here albeit the issue most people like to focus on. This is ignorance, stupidity, poor up bringing, lack of sense of self and hyper insecurity. To enable this behaviour by suggesting it is fueled by football again shows the utter elementary intellect that surrounds the issue. Remember … women (our mothers) weren’t allowed to vote, they weren’t smart enough to make an intelligent decision … they weren’t allowd to be doctors, lawyers, politicians … IT’S IGNORANCE, STUPIDITY, AND POOR UP BRINGING … and it also happens to be sexist … and in the Mido incident it also happens to be racist.
August 28th, 2007 @ 21:26Ahmed
There is no intra-English violence, or very little, because of improvements in policing and the prices of tickets rocketing meaning the kids hanging around on the streets can’t afford to go to matches (plus general increase in standard of living meaning that people have better things to do with their time than go tooled up to an organised ‘meet’). In Italy there was a death or more last year in intra-country violence. It is only England that exports trouble while other countries keep it within their own borders. Your explanation for lack of trouble within England is, frankly, naive and totally utterly inaccurate.
Chanting “shoe bomber” at Mido is not racist in my opinion (as a Muslim myself) because he looks a bit like Richard Reid. Jan Molby used to have “one Bernard Manning” chanted at him due to being so fat. West Ham fans were singing “you’re just a fat Eddy Murphy” at Emile Heskey on Saturday.
Racism does exist – but to say you can’t chant the same level of abuse at non-white players as at white players is not logical.
So, chanting “your mum’s a terrorist” at Mido is unacceptable, in my opinion, as this was only chanted at him because he’s an Arab – if his mum had got sent down for terrorism then it would be OK – if you get my point.
One journalist once wrote about the “unacceptable abuse” from West Ham fans against Matthew Le Tissier. He didn’t mention the “unacceptable abuse” referred to the fans chanting, “big nose” which is not the worst thing in the world.
But yes, until society changes, football won’t change.
The best things clubs can do is target local black and Asian communities with cheap tickets for children to mix the crowd up. West Ham Vs Wigan had “kids for a quid” meaning there were loads of kids and more Asian kids than I have ever seen at a WHam match. That will do more than any high profile anti-racism events ever will.
August 28th, 2007 @ 22:36You seem to have a defeatist attitude when it comes to this, a bit sad that people just accept it. Yes racism is part of society and so is football. Im not saying all fans should go on crusades and act as moral policemen but there are simple steps that can be taken to make people more proactive. All chants, be them glory glory or monkey calls usually start with one or two people and as the saying goes, no pun intended, monkey see monkey do. Its just mob mentality. But if you have a system where you get people to be more proactive and report those few individuals who start racism and get them banned for life from their favorite clubs, it will send a message. There is nothing more painful for a supporter not being able to attend his team’s matched and the authorities should focus on that. Thierry Henry wearing a black and white band on his wrist is going to do shit other than set a fashion statement. Its upto us to be the difference and although what i think might never happen or considered an ideal rather than fact, i rather believe you can do something about it rather than just sit back and accept it.
August 28th, 2007 @ 23:08“So what is the final solution?” poor wording for an article on racism
August 28th, 2007 @ 23:20Ahmed! You beat me to the story! You are right that racism will always exist unless the root of the problem is revealed and solved. It has recently hit home with DeMarcus Beasley and what he has encountered in Europe, I think it is time for NIKE to resume the “Stand Up, Speak Up” campaign and hit this beast head on. FIFA has gotten involved, now it is time for the clubs to start taking responsibility. There is no room in Football, or anywhere else, for racism. We are all human beings, let’s treat each other with respect.
August 28th, 2007 @ 23:58The only thing i can think of his really really heavy punishment to the fans who are found guilty of racism
August 29th, 2007 @ 00:46If you don’t think that “Mido, he’s got a bomb, Mido” (quote taken form The Times) then you are clearly a very uninformed and naive individual. Just because Mido isn’t a stereotypical victim of racist chanting (he isn’t black/asian), doesn’t mean that it wasn’t racist.
And if people had you’re attitude in 1938-45, we’d all be speaking German – after all, Hitler had a bigger army and so much more funds & facilities available; how could a little island like the UK possible stand up to that kind of power?
If we’re scared to stand up to the drunken fools who feel that football is theirs and theirs alone just because they like to hurl abuse, read The Sun and get pissed at every available opportunity then there is no hope for football; we might as well just give up and take up cricket.
August 29th, 2007 @ 02:09Fifth Column- you misisng a few brain cells??? Dya think it would’ve madde any difference to the punks if Mido was a Coptic Christian like many Egyptians? They still would’ve banged out those slurs and it would’ve been on the basis that he’s Egyptian, bron, non-white, from that part of the world- dya think the geordie scum wouold give a rat’s mansion about the slight but significant difference there?
August 29th, 2007 @ 04:43And as a Muslim myslef as well I’d say every day of the week that alling someone a shoe bomber is racist- the slur itself has no basis in race but is racist in its nature and delivery. Sheesh, where were you when common sense was doled out…
Fifth column. How can you say to target black and asian comunities with cheap tickets! To a certain extent that is racism in itself. How would you like to be singled out and be given cheap tickets just because of the colour of your skin. Which also, said in such a generalisation, insists that all blacks and asians are poor and yet this is not the case.
I believe racism is unacceptable yet it is apparent in our every day lives and yet is such verbal abuse all that bad?
I am sure you have heard the phrase, “white trash” and although I agree it is not on the same level as “Mido,he’s got a bomb”, it could be classed as racist when said from black to white. At the end of the day I could say the same to another white person ( me also being white) and it becomes a harmless comment. So to a sense is this not just a… lets not say harmless because it can ruin lives, but is it not meerly sticks and stones? words from one human being to another? because it is only when you acknowledge that their skin tone is different this becomes racial.
If you havent guessed, the point I am trying to make is that we are all human weather we are black, white, yellow or blue and that saying “Mido, he’s got a bomb” should be exactly the same as “Beckham, he’s got a bomb”
August 29th, 2007 @ 04:43Your article was well intended no doubt. But I don’t agree with some of the reasoning. Familiarity breeds contempt as far as I know. Arsenal and Spurs fans can never lose their ill feelings. The only things that stops them is good policing in English football. However, in Italian, Spanish, or any other leagues fan violence has been unavoidable season after season.
Coming to the other point regarding racism. The EPL has had far fewer racist chants as opposed to Italian, Spanish or German leagues. This has got a more social reason. England is far more diverse, assimilative and accepting of other cultures than, say, Spain or Italy. England have had successful Black players. I struggle to think of a single black player for Spain or Italy. Germany just had Asamoah as their first black player. I am referring to players who have played for their respective national teams.
So you see even great players like Etoo booed with monkey taunts.
The French ligue is far more accepting of other races simply because of the cultural make up of their country. Zidane was a Muslim from Africa.
Racism is a part of the social fabric of the country. It is far more deep rooted in a country and has to be done from a government level – bottom up. It would be foolish to expect some fan with illusions of grandeur about his own particular community – a misplaced sense of superiority about his race over others – to shrug all that when he steps into a football stadium.
Of course, there is a lot of generalizations here – I’m sure plenty of Spanish/Italians find the racist taunts deplorable. And so do plenty Newcastle fans. And the Mido incident was an exception to the general case. But it is still unacceptable and has to be rooted out.
August 29th, 2007 @ 05:17If the whole of British football can unite over the tragedies of Madeleine McCann and Rhys Jones, I don’t see why we can’t put other races before football too…
The Evertonian family of Rhys Jones were at the Liverpool game last night – and got a fantastic reception from their bitter footballing rivals, that, incidentally, was above football, and I believe that, to most people, racism is above football too…
We cannot hide from the fact that there will be racists in the stands at matches – but the worst thing is that the some fans accept this racism is happening, and see it as “part and parcel of terrace life… Bull-Shit…
Slavery was part and parcel of American life, things change.
Apartheid was part and parcel of South African life. Things change.
We’re human beings, not a pack of apes! I fins it hard to believe that some consider racism above the law simply because it’s at a football match!
August 29th, 2007 @ 05:51you’re an idiot, ahmed the towelhead. oh what this is a football blog what of it, mate?
simple answer.
fine the fucking crap out of clubs where racist chants happen: 500 g’s or more each occurance. fans won’t want to hurt their club, if they do it gives the club incentive to snuff it out…smart clubs don’t let their bottom line get hurt…when a dollar’s at stake they’ll find a way to cut it out.
August 29th, 2007 @ 07:52matt,
that was tried in Spain. Didn’t work out too well I believe. Etoo is still a monkey in Zaragoza. Even stadium bans wouldn’t help. Once the ban gets lifted, the half wits will enter and repeat the taunts like nothing ever happened. Societal changes are needed, which would be a gradual thing.
Although it’s not too bad in England.
August 29th, 2007 @ 11:46Old devil, hyper insecurity. You said it all cos only when you dont feel you are “it” thats when you try to put people down to make you feel better.Newcatsle should be deducted points as that is the only way it would hit home.
August 29th, 2007 @ 15:35Fifth column, mido doesnt in anyway look like Richard Reid. He is definitely more handsome.
Ok, so the Mido comments were not nice. They had a race element to them, BUT, I dont think the Geordie fans were singing them because they are inherently rascist. They were simply doing their utmost to antagonise an opponent with a view to putting him off his game.
They could have sung Spurs reject or something, but they obviously didnt think that it would have the same impact.
Dont get me wrong, I’m not condoning their actions, I’m just trying to point out that fans will try anything to intimidate opponents.
Now, to stopping it. I think action needs to start with FIFA and UEFA. Their paltry fines for rascist chanting in International matches does not impact the team as it should – either in support or participation of competitions. If they clamp down hard, then it can filter down to the FA etc.
How about if the referee reports it, the offending team cannot take away support to its next game?
I would have liked to see the stewards step in at Boro and remove the offending fans, although difficult with numbers and potential problems with trouble outside.
Fifth Column, West Ham is a particular case as the ethnic community has had to fight over many years to integrate into the community, which hasnt happened elsewhere in the same way. I remember when I first started going to West Ham in the late seventies/early eighties, Green St would become a ghost town after 2.00pm on the day of a game. Now You have 30,000 fans walking on the road towards the stadium and you’ll get the odd little asian lady pushing her pram against the flow… brings a lump to my throat everytime!
Anyway, point is, real societal education, only happens through integration.
August 29th, 2007 @ 15:36ohmygosh – Bollocks. Anyone who sings songs like that is, and must be considered to be, racist, no matter what the circumstances.
August 29th, 2007 @ 16:03Mate, I did say that I WASNT condoning it, and that their should be some sort of punishment. I cant believe every single fan who sang that was rascist and/or islamaphobic. My point is (maybe not well made), was that whether they were or not rascist is irrelevant and that there should be punishment THROUGHOUT football for this sort of behaviour. Sometimes its ignorance as opposed to rascism, but in the grand scheme of things thats probably splitting hairs.
The debate should NOT be about inter v intra country rivalries, or patting ourselves on the back for kicking out the majority of violence that used to mar British football.
Education of a society or a group within the society is an ambitious aim. Thats a long term project.
We need to punish those perpetrators NOW. If they cant support their team, or if they are docked points, or if they start the next game with a 2 goal deficit, I dont know, but at the moment, the FA are looking into it… Big deal.
Football has been a HUGE force for positive social changes in many countries. Its fantastic at educating the masses and bringing people together.
If you had said to me 2 years ago that West Ham fans would be wearing Argentinian shirts, I would have laughed at you. We went to war with them, why would we wear that silly blue and white striped shirt. Tevez changed all that. The speed of that turnaround was rare, hence my point that societal change maybe the long-term goal, short term we need punishment.
A couple of the posts have said that this and that hasnt worked. What will? I’m admitting I dont have the answer, but I want to see something done.
August 29th, 2007 @ 16:29thank you for all the comments – I’ll reply to them later on today, but I wanted to praise the way Anfield honored the memory of 11-yr old Everton fan Rhys Jones.
Goes to showing how rivals can come together if they come in the spirit of cooperation and work for something that’s bigger than themselves.
August 29th, 2007 @ 18:45According to posters on here I am “clearly a very uninformed and naive individual” because “I’d say every day of the week that alling someone a shoe bomber is racist”
Everyone has the right to an opinion and therefore if other posters believe the Mido-bomb stuff is racist then fine. I personally wouldn’t chant it BUT… it was not chanted at him because he is Arab, it was chanted at him because he looks like Richard Reid who was the convicted Shoe Bomber in the same way that other players get things chanted at them for looking like Bernard Manning, Eddie Murphy (see above). There have been other Arab players in the Premier League and they have not had similar chants… why? Because they didn’t look like Richard Reid.
The logic of the comment above are that if you can’t make the same chants at a match at someone who is Arab purely because he is an Arab i.e. Arab players should be specially protected if they happen to look like a well known figure.
However, I have heard several chants at football matches e.g. “Leicester’s full of Pakis” at Filbert Street, anti-Jewish songs which have nothing to do with banter or the match but are sung/chanted merely to vent violent racist beliefs. That is totally unacceptable.
James – in relation to targetting black and asian kids with cheap tickets… what I mean is that it is recognised that black and Asian people are in a huge minority at football grounds. Yet, many football grounds are within areas with large black and asian communities. By doing cheap kids tickets, available to ALL but promoted locally, they will be getting more asian and black kids to attend which helps to integrate crowds more. At present, like at WH, even when they have these offers they don’t do a great deal to promote them locally meaning there is a not a lot of take up from local asian and black kids to the ticket offers.
If anyone is going to disagree then fine, but it’s always wise to actually read and understand what people say first before you jump in with both feet in your mouth.
August 29th, 2007 @ 18:51red ranter-
really though, how much for the fines? if they’re really serious about it…uefa, fifa, and the leagues around europe like the FA etc…they’d fine the crap out of the clubs. to the point where clubs that put up with that crap or have racist fans would be forced into fielding shitty teams. it wouldn’t cure racism but it would stamp it out of football.
August 29th, 2007 @ 19:34fair do’s fifth column, I wasn’t aware of the Richard Reid lookey likey thing so take back that accusation of you not having any brains and thing-it’s the level of contempt I hold for anyone who condones any sort of racism, be it at black, Jew, Muslim, White, Brown or Purple- no doing for me. Sincere Aplogies to Fifth Column there. And no particular race of foreigner/foreign born player is deserving of more protection than others, all should be getting it. Chump ref gave Mido a yellow for his silent rebuke at those pillocks who’ve let down the hoards of decent footballing Geordie folk.
August 29th, 2007 @ 23:15And ohmygosh (post 17); Armando’s handball is the one incident you could’ve referred to in your example about the whammers wearing the Argentina colours, instead you talk of “If you had said to me 2 years ago that West Ham fans would be wearing Argentinian shirts, I would have laughed at you. We went to war with them, why would we wear that silly blue and white striped shirt.”, you’re using an illegal war as a justification for disliking Argentina, an illegal war where the General Belgrano was sunk, EVEN THOUGH it was in retreat..there’s a pathological dislike of Argentina in Britain that is uneasy and unfounded, and you’ve exposed yourself there with that post. You’re a decent person,you’re not racist,you don’t condone racism either, but you are one thing in particular-ignorant. Much like all the punks out there who still believe that the UK Government isn’t the Wagging Tail of the Bush Administration. AAARGH, I SEE DUMB PEOPLE.
Mr Kingofzamunda… Ignorant? C’est moi? Yeah probably, but its all relative anyway! British people havent liked Argentinians for quite some time. Hell, we dont even like the French! But if a French player plays in my teams colours, I’ll love him to bits. Anyway back to Argentina.
The war started off the dislike. Maradona compounded it.
People will generalise. I was making a point about football being a force for good and havent as long as I can remember (I was about 8 when Argentina INVADED The Falklands and cant remember my views at that time) had anything against Argentinians, or any other race, creed or religion for that matter, French included.
If you had asked a West Ham fan a couple of years ago, would you wear an Argentina shirt, most would have said no. Do most of them have anything specific against Argentinians? Nope. The difference is now, they have been exposed to Argentinian players, can appreciate them as individuals, and have moved on.
Do you understand the point I’m making? Please dont dissect everything that someone says and make mountains out of molehills. As Fifth Column was saying, look at what people are trying to say and understand it.
You have posted 2 responses here, the first attacking Fifth Column and the second attacking me.
Fine, thats your prerogative, but at least we have tried to be constructive in tackling the problem whereas you seem to have a political agenda to put across.
Oh by the way, if you can say in one short sentence why The Falklands war was ILLEGAL, please do so.
August 30th, 2007 @ 04:16FC – agreed with you that integrating communities that are traditionally the brunt of racist chants is the way to go forward.
A – not defeatist, just don’t have high hopes for human mob nature. Fans are the key, i agree.
Adam – how’s that?
James – I gotta side with FC on this one. The purpose is integration, and one way of doing that is increased cooperation – if your fellow fans are Arabs, it’s that much harder to taunt an opposition Arab player.
Red Ranter – so now we have a situation where familiarity breeds contempt as well as breeds tolerance (a society that is more accepting of different cultures is only so because they have so much exposure through close contact to these cultures). What’s the catch?
Familiarity breeds contempt WHEN there is competition in the first place – Arsenal vs Spurs for example. However, if there is a need for cooperation (whether imposed by the government or born out of a natural need) then there will be acceptance, tolerance and peace. Witness the period of silence at Anfield before their midweek CL game – the Anfield faithful came together for a murdered Everton fan, I don’t see a better example of fans rising above the spirit of competition and espousing cooperation for things greater than football.
And yes, racism is part of society – I think I said that too
August 30th, 2007 @ 15:05I can agree that by integrating arab fans may make some fans think twice about shouting these racist chants but this plan could backfire if the FA are not carefull. You will still get drunken, racist hooligans who dont give a damn about whos arround them and will shout them any way because of the state they are in.
this could be very intimidating to the arab audience and could even spark off fights. it is bad eneough that white children think this is how you should treat people but do you rely think that putting a child in this sort of environment is logical? and put it in there head that this is the way they should be treated? because even if the full on chants stop, they are bound to hear the odd racial remark shouted by certain individuals.
i dont like the idea of fining the club because it is not the clubs fault and at the time they cannot do anything about it. i think its about time players got out there and protested about this racism so that fans realise their behaviour is unacceptable!
August 30th, 2007 @ 15:54Players already wear anti-racist t-shirts during campaigns etc. It achieves nothing. Having black players achieves nothing. The only thing to stop racism on the terraces (real racism, not “Shoe Bomber” chants) is for anyone shouting genuinely racist abuse to be identified and kicked out. This is happening more now than it used to… and James, by your logic you have to solve all racism in society before trying to get more non-whites to come to matches… which means there will never be an increase in non-white fans at matches which IS an issue when there should be 6 or 7% if it was a reflection of the country rather than the 1% or 2% that it currently is.
You don’t think black and asian kids know there is racism and feel it on the street anyway? It is a sad fact of life… but getting more black and asian fans to attend games is a significant means for reducing racial tensions generally. If you got a lot more Asian fans at West Ham it may not be popular with the right wing section of the fans but for the majority it would be a demonstration of local Asian fans supporting their local team which would help generally in community relations i.e. football helping society.
Of course there will still be idiots. I remember Rio Ferdinand coming on as a Sub for West Ham – think it was 1996 and away to Blackburn. A West Ham fan shouted “he’s a nigger” or something like that. Two other fans, myself included, turned around and shouted abuse at the ‘fan’ for being a racist ####. Ferdinand then actually scored later in the game at which point about 10 fans turned around and started further abusing the ‘fan’ who had shouted the racist comment in the first place.
Only when the crowd does something combined with Clubs rooting out these half-wits will real racism be kicked out of football. Friendly kids tournaments and players making statements or wearing T-shirts is an irrelevance.
August 30th, 2007 @ 20:34i dont think you fully read my comment i agreed with the intergration of arab and black fans! and i dont like you talking to me like i am a child. yes i know racism is out on the streets but i dont think it is right to introduce children into this environment… so yeah you and someone else turned arround and hurled abuse back, but hey! at least the children know that out of the thousands of fans there, 2 people are actually level headed. Then they see the rest of the fans doing nothing about it and his mates arround him laughing or if not probably a few smirks.
you seem to be only thinking of the positives of the situation, “but getting more black and asian fans to attend games is a significant means for reducing racial tensions generally.” but not much is going to change, they hear racism on the streets like you said, and now they will hear racism in the stadium (even if it is just the odd remark by one person) society will not change, i mean just because some racist #### has seen an arab at a football match does not mean he will think to himself ‘oh i best not say anything’ because it is not how their mind works.
that is why i dissagree with the introduction of arab children into football grounds, but bringing the asian comunity into the stadium is fine by me but these people wont change. now can you see that i agree with you but also have other opinions or are you too stuburn to agree that what i am saying is also true to a certain extent.
August 30th, 2007 @ 22:36I never said for a second that it wasn’t true that you might get some tensions or even fights in extreme circumstances.
“£that is why i dissagree with the introduction of arab children into football grounds”
The logical conclusion of that position is that you don’t seek to get more asian, arab etc kids to come to grounds until racism is “solved” in society which will never ever happen 100%.
Fights are extremely rare within football grounds at Premier League level because there is such a high level of security. Stewarding, police presence etc. It would be more difficult to do at Burnley for example than at West Ham (two areas with big Asian populations) because the stewarding and policing would not be as high profile with as much CCTV as a Premier League ground.
I have gone to West Ham on dozens of occasions with Asian friends and there has never been a single problem. However, for the long term if we wish to have football crowds as representative of the local populations you need to target the kids which is where I started from. When I went to West Ham Vs Wigan I took my eldest son and two Asian kids who are friends of the family – none of whom were White. I know an Indian West Ham fan who is one of the few who has been going for years to Upton Park and he looks at any occasional racist comments as no different to walking down the street – and the same when his kids hear things… it’s life as we know it. But by hiding away from it you are not going to solve the problem but make it worse.
So, he and I who have non-white children don’t have a problem taking our kids and it is patronising to suggest -effectively – that we shouldn’t do so because the kids might get upset at racist comments or whatever. Should we have to hide away our kids in shame in case someone is ignorant/racist. This is the view of most non-white people I know who take their kids to games. Others who don’t attend games will probably agree with you.
Genuine question James – what is your experience of attending football matches in England and racism?
August 31st, 2007 @ 14:05Fifth and James, my opinions in a nutshell.
Sticking more ‘ethnic’ kids into grounds wont help.
Punishment for rascism in football needs to be IMMEDIATE. If thats kicking people out of grounds or penalising the team, I dont know.
Local communities represented at grounds? Most kids that I see are glory grabbing Manure supporters, why would they want to go to West Ham or Wigan or Southend or anyone out of the top 4? Well I could give you lots of reasons, but where it matters in the playground, its all about bragging rights.
‘Having more black players makes no difference’. C’mon Fifth, do you really believe that? If WHU hadnt had the Charles brothers and Best in the sixties, we could probably have been a very different club.
Barnes used to get bananas thrown at him at lots of grounds especially Everton… it was what, the mid 90′s before they had their first black player? Did that influence their behaviour?
Look at Eastern Europe. If they had as many black players in their leagues as we do, you dont think that would make some difference?
James, I gotta agree with the Fifth on kids at games. Kid’s aint stupid and showing them that you can enjoy yourselves at games regardless of mindless minorities is important. I’ve been going to WHU since 79, and unlike Fifth, I have experienced rascism both in and out the ground. Things have changed radically in East London during that time though.
Anyway, this is getting us nowhere. As th emost multicultural nation in Europe, I think the FA needs to do more than have a ‘Kick Rascism Out of Football’ thing going on. It should be more ‘Rascism – Zero Tolerance’
Question is, how do we achieve that?
August 31st, 2007 @ 16:19ohmygosh, i was not for one minuite suggesting that kids are stupid, i was meerly suggesting we protect the children but from what fith column has said i see this is not how the asian comunity thinks. Fifth, who said anything about shame!? i certainly did not, maby it was my Naivety to assume it would protect the children when i did not know how the asian comunity would feel about the matter.
As for my expirience attending football games Fifth, i do not have a season ticket but attend as many games as i can get time for often with my step dad or brothers i myself have never heard anything from the everton fans to which i remember too recently, although i think something was said by an individual when i was around 8 or 9 although i could not tell you who it was aimed at or even who we were playing i just remember someone shouting back shut up you ####. either way this has nothing to do with the matter and has taken us completely off the point! we need a way to kick racism out of football yet can we realy do this? or does it need to come out of soceity all together?
August 31st, 2007 @ 17:07OMG
I wasn’t suggesting that having black players hasn’t changed anything. I quite agree that the massive changes there have already been in racism becoming less acceptable at football grounds is partly a result of so many black players.
However, James suggested in a previous post that “i think its about time players got out there and protested about this racism so that fans realise their behaviour is unacceptable!”. I just pointed out there have been loads of anti-racism projects and statements but it all does very little IMHO.
I probably agree with every word of your post actually OMG – which worries me a bit.
September 1st, 2007 @ 06:11I agree with most of what you say Ahmed along with some other posters. Racism is part of society and this is a fact that seems to escape the notice of many in the footballing community especially some players. It seems some players think that they will be immune from what happens in society and make a big fuss when they are greeted with monkey chants etc when they play in certain countries or even certain English grounds. Until people change(which wont be in this century)racism will always be with us especially in certain places. The only thing we can promote is encouraging youngsters in the schools around the world to appreciate other nationalities so the generations that follow us will be more tolerant of others. I have a season ticket at a London club and must say that even though I am a person of colour I have never been overtly subjected to any racist behaviour/comments and neither have the players. However I’m not sure about removing the competitive element in football, I think fans like to see their team compete but this shouldn’t mean that one should resort to racist insults and behaviour if the other team who happen to have foreign players are beating your team. Once people in general learn to accept racial differences between one another then racism will fade but that’s a long way off.
September 26th, 2007 @ 23:01i cant bileve racism is being encouraged !!
” The best things clubs can do is target local black and Asian communities with cheap tickets ”
why only target asian & black comunities & completely ignore the white comunity ?
March 22nd, 2009 @ 03:36Ahmed,
You might as well roll over and play dead,
Your defeatist attitude is not welcome or needed.
I work in grass roots football and the work of myself and many clubs and footballers are helping the problem and it is a big problem.
You can write your negative article and then bury your head in the sand, but I just want you to know that attitudes can change, it will just take time.
There will always be idiots, but hopefully the people around the idiots will know it’s wrong and stop them.
What is really needed is for FIFA to take this issue seriously with real fines and punishments.
May 24th, 2009 @ 09:38