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	<title>Comments on: With Tevez, West Ham are in deeper than a horny pig</title>
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		<title>By: slaton</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53530</link>
		<dc:creator>slaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53530</guid>
		<description>Another thought. Tevez is just an advanced case of free agency. Rather than being a transfer he signs for a signing on fee but retains his economic rights under certain conditions. Westham signed him under conditions that would have allowed him to retain his rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thought. Tevez is just an advanced case of free agency. Rather than being a transfer he signs for a signing on fee but retains his economic rights under certain conditions. Westham signed him under conditions that would have allowed him to retain his rights.</p>
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		<title>By: slaton</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53527</link>
		<dc:creator>slaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 13:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I wonder if there would be as much of a problem if Tevez had a contract that said that he not MSI could negotiate with any team he wanted that he could opt out at any point in return for signing for a lesser fee with Westham. I think that in many ways what they are trying to avoid is player freedom not third party influence. How can the player be a third party. Since MSI are Tevez&#039;s agents they negotiate on his behalf and to his benefit. The only way you can say they were not working to his benefit was if he were being sold to a worse team. Therefore, when they speak of a third party they really speak of Tevez himself. They say that a player has no rights under contract that only teams can make decisions on players. 

The real issue is player power vs team power. I find it ridiculous that players cannot decide to join another team without having so many barriers placed in front of them. That players cannot decide to join another team without being called a traitor yet teams can dump a player for whatever reason even arbitrary reasons. It is ridiculous that being able to decide which club you wish to play for and when you want to end your contract is considered third party influence. 

Think about it if you wish to leave your company for another but the law says that your contract can only be terminated by your contractor and not you. That only your company can negotiate with another to allow you to move. That if they decide that they want you to leave they can sell your contract to whom ever they wish with little or no input from you. That for me is slavery not when a person has an agent who negotiates on his behalf and in return for that gets the transfer fee rather than a percentage of the players salary for life in cases as much as fifty percent for foreign nationals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if there would be as much of a problem if Tevez had a contract that said that he not MSI could negotiate with any team he wanted that he could opt out at any point in return for signing for a lesser fee with Westham. I think that in many ways what they are trying to avoid is player freedom not third party influence. How can the player be a third party. Since MSI are Tevez&#8217;s agents they negotiate on his behalf and to his benefit. The only way you can say they were not working to his benefit was if he were being sold to a worse team. Therefore, when they speak of a third party they really speak of Tevez himself. They say that a player has no rights under contract that only teams can make decisions on players. </p>
<p>The real issue is player power vs team power. I find it ridiculous that players cannot decide to join another team without having so many barriers placed in front of them. That players cannot decide to join another team without being called a traitor yet teams can dump a player for whatever reason even arbitrary reasons. It is ridiculous that being able to decide which club you wish to play for and when you want to end your contract is considered third party influence. </p>
<p>Think about it if you wish to leave your company for another but the law says that your contract can only be terminated by your contractor and not you. That only your company can negotiate with another to allow you to move. That if they decide that they want you to leave they can sell your contract to whom ever they wish with little or no input from you. That for me is slavery not when a person has an agent who negotiates on his behalf and in return for that gets the transfer fee rather than a percentage of the players salary for life in cases as much as fifty percent for foreign nationals.</p>
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		<title>By: Mach</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53394</link>
		<dc:creator>Mach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53394</guid>
		<description>Gautam - Sorry but can you explain how the EPL rules don&#039;t allow him to play against Man United? 

&#039;Tim Howard - No particular clause was inserted in his contract with Everton. It was based on a â€œverbalâ€ agreement between the 2 clubs&#039; You obviously don&#039;t understand contract law very well as &#039;verbal&#039; agreement can be legally binding thus making it third party involvement.

I have no particular beef with Man Utd but what really gets me about the whole affair is my club WHU are being painted as cheats, liars etc, yet in principle the same thing occurs with almost every other club. The big clubs are painted whiter than white as they generate the most money, news etc, imagine your a jouralist and you upset Sir Alex, suddenly your paper has limited access to interviews etc, so issues involving the bigger sides tend to get looked over the &#039;Ashley Cole affair&#039; being a prime example.

I also thought &#039;tapping up&#039; was illegal yet it goes on all the time, take Rick Parry who let it be know through the media that Liverpool were interested in Yossi B, his comments turned the player who was about to sign a new 5 year contract and then offers just Â£1m for a player worth at least Â£6m. Move on a few weeks, WHU have a player who won&#039;t sign a new deal and wants to move and Liverpool, WHU know they have to sell as he&#039;d be a free agent in the summer so slowly Liverpool offer a little more each time and finally get their man for roughly Â£4m.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gautam &#8211; Sorry but can you explain how the EPL rules don&#8217;t allow him to play against Man United? </p>
<p>&#8216;Tim Howard &#8211; No particular clause was inserted in his contract with Everton. It was based on a â€œverbalâ€ agreement between the 2 clubs&#8217; You obviously don&#8217;t understand contract law very well as &#8216;verbal&#8217; agreement can be legally binding thus making it third party involvement.</p>
<p>I have no particular beef with Man Utd but what really gets me about the whole affair is my club WHU are being painted as cheats, liars etc, yet in principle the same thing occurs with almost every other club. The big clubs are painted whiter than white as they generate the most money, news etc, imagine your a jouralist and you upset Sir Alex, suddenly your paper has limited access to interviews etc, so issues involving the bigger sides tend to get looked over the &#8216;Ashley Cole affair&#8217; being a prime example.</p>
<p>I also thought &#8216;tapping up&#8217; was illegal yet it goes on all the time, take Rick Parry who let it be know through the media that Liverpool were interested in Yossi B, his comments turned the player who was about to sign a new 5 year contract and then offers just Â£1m for a player worth at least Â£6m. Move on a few weeks, WHU have a player who won&#8217;t sign a new deal and wants to move and Liverpool, WHU know they have to sell as he&#8217;d be a free agent in the summer so slowly Liverpool offer a little more each time and finally get their man for roughly Â£4m.</p>
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		<title>By: karl</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53325</link>
		<dc:creator>karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, who can argue now that the Tevez-to-United transfer is not the MOST talked about transfer of the season?
This is even more sensational than the Beckham-to-USA transfer (although for different reasons of course)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, who can argue now that the Tevez-to-United transfer is not the MOST talked about transfer of the season?<br />
This is even more sensational than the Beckham-to-USA transfer (although for different reasons of course)</p>
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		<title>By: DBeech</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53321</link>
		<dc:creator>DBeech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53321</guid>
		<description>1. Because third parties have nothing to do with football. Football clubs do.

2. Presumably this is the bit about no party other than a club and player can determine the conditions of the contract.

3. Yes, but let&#039;s not forget that this is not West Ham&#039;s fault... at least not anymore. Granted they did the wrong thing when negotiating Tevez&#039;s contract (no one other than the FA would try and deny that). But the FA are the one&#039;s at fault for the short-sighted decisions about this player. Surely they realized that they needed to sort this out because the issue would only arise again when another club came to the realization he&#039;s one of the best young talents in the world and tried to buy him? Did they think he was going to retire at West Ham!? Let&#039;s not forget that the decision, poor as it was, they made was made far later than it should have been.

4. They can&#039;t (because he has a contract) but the FA or, need be, the courts could. Maybe I&#039;m biased as a United fan, but this seems like the best result - seeing as the original contract was sour anyway.

5. The deal was ignorance. Ignorance is bliss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Because third parties have nothing to do with football. Football clubs do.</p>
<p>2. Presumably this is the bit about no party other than a club and player can determine the conditions of the contract.</p>
<p>3. Yes, but let&#8217;s not forget that this is not West Ham&#8217;s fault&#8230; at least not anymore. Granted they did the wrong thing when negotiating Tevez&#8217;s contract (no one other than the FA would try and deny that). But the FA are the one&#8217;s at fault for the short-sighted decisions about this player. Surely they realized that they needed to sort this out because the issue would only arise again when another club came to the realization he&#8217;s one of the best young talents in the world and tried to buy him? Did they think he was going to retire at West Ham!? Let&#8217;s not forget that the decision, poor as it was, they made was made far later than it should have been.</p>
<p>4. They can&#8217;t (because he has a contract) but the FA or, need be, the courts could. Maybe I&#8217;m biased as a United fan, but this seems like the best result &#8211; seeing as the original contract was sour anyway.</p>
<p>5. The deal was ignorance. Ignorance is bliss.</p>
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		<title>By: Vineesh</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53319</link>
		<dc:creator>Vineesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>United pulling out is a huge possibility too. But I dont think United will pull out until they realize there is no way Tevez can move. Because, as far as United are concerned, any ruling by the Premier league doesnt matter. They wont bother who they are paying the money to as long as they have full rights over the player, will they?
Why else would they be proceeding so confidently having set up a medical even for next week and Alex stating we will get him registered as soon as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>United pulling out is a huge possibility too. But I dont think United will pull out until they realize there is no way Tevez can move. Because, as far as United are concerned, any ruling by the Premier league doesnt matter. They wont bother who they are paying the money to as long as they have full rights over the player, will they?<br />
Why else would they be proceeding so confidently having set up a medical even for next week and Alex stating we will get him registered as soon as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Vineesh</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53318</link>
		<dc:creator>Vineesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>IN response to post no.4,
I want to know who exactly loaned out Mascherano to Liverpool, Kia or West Ham. Who did they buy him from?
Whatever it is, why does it have to be different from Tevez&#039;s case?

I think the only reason why West Ham are doing this is because they had already let go of Mascherano before the ruling and in now can make money out of that deal now. So they wanna make up for the fine and make a hell load with Tevez&#039;s valuation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IN response to post no.4,<br />
I want to know who exactly loaned out Mascherano to Liverpool, Kia or West Ham. Who did they buy him from?<br />
Whatever it is, why does it have to be different from Tevez&#8217;s case?</p>
<p>I think the only reason why West Ham are doing this is because they had already let go of Mascherano before the ruling and in now can make money out of that deal now. So they wanna make up for the fine and make a hell load with Tevez&#8217;s valuation.</p>
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		<title>By: Liam O'Kelly</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53317</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam O'Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I fear that the outcome may be United pulling out of the deal and it&#039;s a shame because the only other players who could have signed that would have been as good as Tevez would have been Torres and Saviola seeing as they were the 2 big strikers who were available. An upside would be that Rossi wont be sold but I was starting to really look forward to seeing Tevez in a reds shirt, lets just hope that United can find a legal way to complete the transfer or find another world-class striker to buy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fear that the outcome may be United pulling out of the deal and it&#8217;s a shame because the only other players who could have signed that would have been as good as Tevez would have been Torres and Saviola seeing as they were the 2 big strikers who were available. An upside would be that Rossi wont be sold but I was starting to really look forward to seeing Tevez in a reds shirt, lets just hope that United can find a legal way to complete the transfer or find another world-class striker to buy.</p>
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		<title>By: Vineesh</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53316</link>
		<dc:creator>Vineesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53316</guid>
		<description>The final question is does anyone here know whether Carlos Tevez will become a Manchester United player soon enough? I am doubtful. So unlike United to be involved in such a controversy.

With this warrant, if he does get jailed and then Kia cannot be contacted, what will happen to the whole transfer Saga?

I am really hopeful next week things become more clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The final question is does anyone here know whether Carlos Tevez will become a Manchester United player soon enough? I am doubtful. So unlike United to be involved in such a controversy.</p>
<p>With this warrant, if he does get jailed and then Kia cannot be contacted, what will happen to the whole transfer Saga?</p>
<p>I am really hopeful next week things become more clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Red Ranter</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/west-ham-are-in-it-deeper-than-a-horny-pig/2345/#comment-53314</link>
		<dc:creator>Red Ranter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think the laundered money story is what he did with Corinthians over a period of two years. That article says that the arrest warrant, now submitted to Interpol, is the result of two years of investigation. 

I believe he&#039;s been laundering money off Corinthians or whatever, but I doubt buying Tevez had much to do with it. 

Oh well, things are getting murkier and murkier. It&#039;s a mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the laundered money story is what he did with Corinthians over a period of two years. That article says that the arrest warrant, now submitted to Interpol, is the result of two years of investigation. </p>
<p>I believe he&#8217;s been laundering money off Corinthians or whatever, but I doubt buying Tevez had much to do with it. </p>
<p>Oh well, things are getting murkier and murkier. It&#8217;s a mess.</p>
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