Ipanema bob’s argument is extremely weak, but he does make a good point on Gerrard, lampard et al. The truth is they’e all vastly overrated, not just Beckham. The only difference is Beckham’s fame vastly outweighs his talent.

What disappoints me is someone like you claiming englands “only hope” or only tactic is to play to the beckham mould,carry the guy as we did through world cup 02,euro2004 and the last world cup on the basis that he has a free-kick record of 1 successful strike every 2 years and occassionally finds a single “assist” v a tin-pot non-professional standard opponent.Its so feeble and blind thinking to assume that way of playing was the “only” way.Even under that wally mcclaren,when england were forced to change their style due to injury for a run of qualifiers,we saw a coherance,a shape and a style of play twice as “effective” as anything seen in the last decaying days of the eriksson regime.V russsai,v israel,it wasnt just the 6-0 aggregate,it was the fluency of some of the play with equality on the pitch and it appeared a world away from the moribund style wed become ccustomed to under the eriksson-beckham axis.Thats the way we should have gone about things from long agao,with players of genuine substance and true technical ability such as paul scholes being our lynchpin,not the faboulously famous yet fatally flawed Beckham.Eriksson was locked in his victory or death pact with his golden ticket to the celebrity world he so adored however and would not have dropped beckham or thought of another angle in a million years,thats why he was so easily and regulary out-thought and out-coached by the likes of Scholari.

All these deabtes are on the past however and at least you and i seem to agree that the past is where it all belongs and after giving beckham his “big day”,i really think its in all our interests to make it clear to beckham that his time has come and gone and he has to accept his place in history and handle his 5 failures and not delude himself that he has any chance whatsoever for a 6th go at redemption on that exhalted stage where only the truly great propser.

Pedroella,

I’m not forgetting Beckham got a start in ‘96. I’m ignoring it because it’s a stupid point. Once again, try READING my comment before you type. I said that Bentley SHOULD get HIS chance to prove himself – in games with ENGLAND in INTERNATIONAL MATCHES. I don’t think BECKHAM should play again, because he won’t be around for 2010. But I DO hate band-wagon detractors like yourself, who jump on a guy because it’s becoming fashionable to do so, and who have the gall for thinking they’re independently-minded in doing so.

I admit, Eriksson did go along with that stupid “quarter-back” idea. But look again at the rationale behind it – England players can’t retain the ball, and they need someone to lump it accurately the forwards. Lampard and Gerrard aren’t creative midfielders, and won’t do that. Actually, the idea of a deep-lying creative midfielder isn’t that stupid – Pirlo does a similiar thing for Milan. But Milan have better players, and can play a more sophisticated brand of football. And they’ve got Gattuso are running around like a shaggy terrier. England, can’t, don’t and the best they could come up with was Beckham’s crosses.

And it’s “effective”, not “affective”. It’s rude to attribute “quotes” that I didn’t type, but if you do, don’t use the wrong word.

Garbage that Beckham was “affective”.Eriksson played to a style mainly to be able to carry and accomodate Beckham-note alan hansens disdain at this method and his view that it would come a cropper as soon as england came up against a opponent of genuine stature.He was right.Sweden arrived,portugal arrived-and Beckham disappeared.It was of no surprise to some of us who read the game and what was going on.

Seriously, dude, did you even read my post, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? I already said that Bentley should be given a chance to prove himself. I also said that he’s not proven himself at a high standard (and I don’t believe Premier League is a high enough standard). Until he’s played consistently at that level, you’re just pushing his claim on the PRESUMPTION that he’ll be good enough. You’re swallowing the hype that’s currently building around him, that used to be around Lennnon, and SWP… and Beckham.

And yes, for what it’s worth, I thought Beckham was one of the few effective players for England in 2006. Anyway, you’re forgetting that England AS A WHOLE played poorly. What Beckham was picked to do, he did well. If you’re playing lump-it-to-the-big-striker football, you need a guy who can cross accurately and reliably. Beckham gives you this. He doesn’t give you much more, but he gives you this. What you SHOULD be pissed off about is that Lampard needs a team built around him, Gerrard runs like a headless chicken, Rooney has a temper, Owen is always injured, Ferdinand loses concentration, Robinson is crap, A.Cole is an a.hole, and Gary Neville is STILL the best England right-back.

Also, you refer to an article from Michael Henderson about the startling fact that Beckham isn’t a “great”. When did I EVER say he was a great player? I just dislike this attitude that he’s either the best ever, or utter crap. Why don’t you do a google search on Michael Henderson’s articles? I’ll bet that he was one of those lauding the “Golden Generation” and “Goldenballs” when it was cool to do so. Tabloid hack.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/sport/2008/01/10/sfnhen110.xml

If youre going to say things like “crosses to heskey” then give me examples,there should be contless ones if even a miniscule fraction of his hype had been born out.There simply isnt.

how can bentley prove hes cl quality when he doesnt play for a cl side?And what is cl quality anyway?MLS?is Beckham playing at cl level or did he prove he was up to that standard at any point while at europes biggest club real madrid in his 4 seasons there?No.How would Beckham ever have got his chance in 96 if others hadnt stepped aside when the time was right for him?

No-one says hes not a hard tryer,he always has been,except for a 3 or 4 year period around 2002-2006 when he frankly lost the plot over his ability and truly believed hmself to be this “great” player who had “destiny” in his sights.Thats why ferguson got him out his club and thats why eriksson shouldnt have indulged his every whim to the ludicrous and cringeworthy degree he did with england,it did us no goood whatsoever and our 3 weak exits filled with appallingly useless Beckham non-shows in each and every quarter proved this absolutely.

2010 now,we dont need the hassle and fuss weve seen around the Beckham circus this week distracting us anymore,its simply not worth it when hes receeding so fast as a power and when even when at its peak,that power always had a very low ceiling of achievement and level where it could prosper.

Doesn’t the above comment apply to EVERY England player? No need to single out Becks because he’s pretty and has money. I actually thought he played quite well in the 2006 World Cup. Him and Hargreaves were the only effective players, in my mind.

“And seriously,why dont you list all these crosses Beckham produced from that right-hand side for the likes of Owen across all his years and games”

How many games has Owen played in the past few years? And he’s more of a poacher, not a big target-man type. How many crosses has Beckham provided for Heskey, Crouch, etc.

“Bentley on the basis of form is the man that should be picked and bedded in before the qualifyers come around.Hes playing great football week in wekk out in the premier league,your champions league point is utterly propostrous.He plays for blackburn,how can he possibly prove himself in the cl?”

I agree. Bentley should be given opportunities to prove himself. He’s a good Premier League player. CL football, however, is of a higher level. It’s not Bentley’s fault he doesn’t play it, but… you can’t tell if he’s of the quality unless he plays. Catch-22. Which means he may not necessarily be better than Beckham. Think back to SWP at Man City, the clamour for him for England, and the resultant disappointment. Yes, SWP had potential, but he wasn’t ready back then. He lacked the nous to cope with international football. He wasn’t exposed in the Premier League, but he was found out in international games.

Look, I agree Beckham’s been hyped beyond his talents in the past. I find the media circus around him distasteful. But I disagree with the current backlash against him. Just as he wasn’t the best player in the world circa 2000, he’s not the worst player in the England side now. He’s still what he always was – a good right winger who’s great at crossing, and worth his place in a mediocre England squad.

I’ll leave you with this excerpt from the Daily Mail. It’s from an article about Arsenal’s academy players, and has a reference to Beckham’s current training stint at London Colney:

On this issue, David Beckham’s recent presence has proved a real bonus, with the coaching staff hugely impressed by the way their guest has gone about his fitness work, showing great desire and professionalism.

On the day I popped in, Beckham had just spent practising free-kicks with young Randall. What an experience for the lad. More importantly, what an example to set by England’s former captain.

Bould can only agree. “If he’s doing that at his age with all that money and nothing left to prove?…?Who knows, a little bit of that attitude might rub off on our lads.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml;jsessionid=W30D0HR0AGX4BQFIQMFCFFOAVCBQYIV0?xml=/sport/2008/01/09/sfnars109.xml&page=1