The Liverpool Tinkerer Irritates Me
About three weeks ago the feeling around Anfield was one of ecstasy and joy; Liverpool had just beaten Derby County 6-0 without star players Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher- this victory took them to the top of the table for the first time in years.
As of September 25th, 2007 however the mood is slightly more somber- although Liverpool have not lost a game in that time, a succession of three draws in a row (one against Porto in the Champions League) has put a dampener on fans spirits, as well as sent Liverpool to fourth in the table (albeit with a game in hand).
So, who exactly is to blame for these slipups?
Although draws will certainly be had during the Premiership season, as the league gets more and more competitive teams wanting to compete for the title can drop fewer and fewer points- and Liverpool supporters should definitely consider it two points dropped both away to Portsmouth and at home to Birmingham. It could have been even worse against Portsmouth had Kanu not fluffed his penalty (a great save from the goalkeeper) and if your team struggles to break down relegation contenders Birmingham at home, you should realize that you have problems up front.
The thing is however that Liverpool do not have problems up front- their strike force is just as good as Manchester United’s, and as a whole probably better than both Arsenal’s and Chelsea’s. Liverpool have the height of Crouch, the work-rate of Kuyt and the intelligence of Voronin to complement superstar signing Fernando Torres, so why the hell could they not break down a team almost certain to be in the relegation battle in front of around 45,000 people at Anfield? The blame has to stay with one man, and one man only. Step forward Rafa Benitez- you will hope that these mistakes do not prove costly in the title race.
Benitez has long since advocated a rotation policy; he did it with great success while he was at Valencia. He has also done it well at Liverpool, helping them reach two Champions League finals (winning one) as well as win the FA Cup. His rotation policy means that players are fresh at the end of the season and are thus able to strongly compete for honours; however his tinkering here has cost Liverpool.
Fernando Torres was bought for a reason- to score goals. Liverpool had always lacked that 20+ goal a season striker, many saw Torres as that man. By signing Torres, Liverpool sent out a definitive statement about what they mean to do this season to the rest of Europe. One of the best young players in the world, Torres shows that Liverpool are aiming to compete with the big guns- not just in Europe, but in the Premiership as well.
The problem I have with Rafa’s rotation policy is basically timing. It is a smart idea, build up a strong squad so all are fresh at the end of the year, however there is no reason to do this at the beginning. At the start of a new Premier League season, players are raring to get into the action. They do not want to be rested, they want to be putting in tackles, scoring goals or winning headers depending on their position on the pitch- thus I cannot understand Torres being rested.
When asked about it, Benitez spouted off some rubbish about Torres not being able to “operate between the lines”. This claim was easily disproved as Torres was the best player on the pitch during his thirty-minute spell against Birmingham; had his well-taken bicycle kick gone in, we may well have seen a contender for goal of the season.
I like Liverpool as a team- were my beloved Arsenal not to win the Premiership I would have no problem if Liverpool did so. That is why it irritates me to see his constant tinkering and rotation. Luckily Manchester United and Chelsea have also slipped up, but Benitez and Liverpool must sort it out before they start to fall behind.
Ed’s Note: With Torres banging in a hat-trick in the Carling Cup, it just goes on to prove what a difference he could have made for Liverpool in the two drawn Premier League encounters…
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yeh ino im still a bit angry at Rafa but lets hope Torres plays every league match for us until the end of the season
What rubbish, Rafa explained that Torres on the bench against B’ham was tactical - “the work rate of Kuyt and the intelligence of Voronin” should have been enough but as usual someone fails to give credit to the other team. B’ham came with a game plan - 10 men behind the ball - and they stuck to it brilliantly for 90 minutes. As for the point at Portsmouth - anyone remotely knowledgeable about football would realise it’s becoming increasingly more difficult to go to places like Fratton Park and get anything, just ask Manchester United.
Over reliance on one man is a disaster waiting to happen - Torres may well score 20+ goals this season but any sort of serious injury would leave us in no-mans land. We need goals from all over the park and the best way to achieve this is to make sure everyone gets time on the pitch. No-one questioned the rotation policy when we won 10 on the trot but 2 draws in the league makes it wrong? Get a grip Jason, any team wishing to compete at the highest level must try to maintain all of there players as best as possible - maybe you’d like to analyse the starting line-ups of both Chelsea and Manchester United before criticising Rafa any further, I think you may find they’re no more stable than our own.
Spot on Freddie, agree with everything there. I suspect those willing to lay into Rafa probably didn’t watch all (or any) of the matches in question in full. Reading away is a totally different game to Birmingham at home. Torres wouldn’t have had an inch of space to run into against that Birmingham defence, whereas attack-minded Reading were leaving acres of the stuff.
This ‘rotation’ argument is tired, lazy journalism at it’s worst.
Yup couldnt agree more with freddie. People always questioning the manager ability when things started to go the wrong way. As usual the rotation policy is the first to be targetted. We are using different plyares for different task. How come you do not blame Kuyt or Voronin or Gerrand for not scoring …these are great players..sometimes when the opposition comes to anfield they know one thing..attack and get beaten like derby or defend and get a draw..which would you pick. nuff said.
Although I think it an admirable trait to defend our manager so staunchly.. we should realise he is not immune to making mistakes, and as fans we are allowed to question any decision he makes. Some fans appear blinkered to the extent that in their eyes Rafa can do no wrong. Well he’s not perfect, as he will freely admit, and he does make mistakes. Don’t get me wrong, I rate him very highly and would not want to lose him; however I do question his methods over recent games. He was the one that told us how the competition for places will improve individual performance. How can this be the case when no matter how well you perform you are likely to be on the bench for the next game? There’s no incentive there.. because you know you’ll be rotated and get a game eventually anyway. From a psychological view.. it will effect the players drive. Plus there are mixed messages.. Pennant gets sent off, so is punished by playing the next game.. Torres scores 2 against Derby and is rewarded by warming the bench for the next few games. I think he has become slightly confused over which is the carrot and which is the stick. I’m sure in his mind it makes sense.. there must be method to his madness.
This is by far the worse piece of crap I`ve ever red. Sure Rafa is not flawless, but the draw vs. Pompey and Birmingham cant be blamed for benching Torres. If we had scored the Benching Torres/rotation saga would never been aired. Both teams starting against Pompey and Birmingham should been good enough to secure 3 points. But as you all know, one will never win every game pr season.
My point being, the draws came because Liverpool couldnt furfill their game plan and set their chances. Not because the benching of one player. Will you blame the Porto game for the benching og Voronin?? Or Crouch??
This rotation discussion is just bloggers BS.
I would love to thank Rafa for tinkering always! Keep it out. The more you do it, the more you cant win the EPL. After that, the Red Devils will win the league again! ^^
F365 put it perfectly. I am quoting from there:
You see, he still considers benching Torres.
What a load of b****x. Why were you not complaining about rotation after we’d beaten Derby 6-0? You say the other strikers at the club are not the problem, then by definition they should have been good enough to score against Brum and Pompey.
Torres was not bought to score goals, in fact if he scores 20 this season, it will be the first time in his career that he’ll have managed that. Last nights hat-trick proved Rafa was right, you pick the best team for a particular opponent, Reading at home play attacking football, if your not convinced check out the frustrated Torres performance against Porto. Your other arguments are so flawed, I can’t be asked to respond to them, your a fool…
Torres was not bought to score goals? No, quite clearly he was brought in to sell hot dogs next to the bus stop opposite the Anfield ticket office.
How can Torres scoring a hat-trick against Reading prove Rafa right? If anything it proves him wrong for not picking him for the Brum game. I don’t like Liverpool and find it quite funny that Benitez seems to be planning to throw away the title chance by rotating in a very strange manner.
Pompey away wasn’t necessarily a bad result though - Pompey will rarely lose at home this season. But failing to beat Brum at home and not even looking like beating them despite the pressure…? Clearly Benitez got that wrong. The knee jerk “defend Benitez” reaction is mis-placed. But better than the fickle Spuds “we love Jol”…[5 mins passes]… “we hate Jol” reaction I suppose.
Agree with Freddie et al. Chelsea Man U and Arsenal rotate equally but the fans know that ultimately the responsibility lies with the quality of the players and squad. The bad results were because the midielders and strikers didnt play well enough, simple as that. Anyone who blames Rafa is just hiding from the truth.
Could someoone just remind me how many players Wenger introduced yesterday? One mans rotation is another mans ‘brilliant introduction of new talent’. Journalists and the more stupid and vocal Liverpool fans should wind their necks in. Everyone one knows where Steve Briuce likes to park the bus - must be shit being a Blues fan! I was lucky enough to be at the game last night and everything you see from Torres close-up is brilliant - we are looking at Henry’s successor! Anybody listening to TalkShite or Sun/Sky Sports would think Rafa is the worst coach in the world - that title belonged to Moaninho the biggest bottler in football. In Rafa I trust - Bye Bye Moaninho!
“rotation” in football terms should be moving around one’s players to give them a rest when necessary while picking a team that will still win a football match. Benitez failed to do this with Brum game and by all accounts of almost every report I have read in all the major daily papers Liverpool didn’t do very much in the game to warrant a win.
Therefore, Benitez cocked up. Maybe not just in Torres but in terms of tactics and team selection. I can’t understand why Liverpool fans can’t see that.
5 column - The players cocked up, if Liverpool have any aspirations for the title, the teams Rafa picked should be able to perform much better in the three games than they did, simple as that. Remind me who was missing when they played Porto…….
Instead of pleasing pundits and over opinionated even if frustrated fans, Rafa must be left alone to manage the introduction of Torres into the over physical and sometimes violent league that some purport to be the best in the world.
The main criticism of Rafa over the last week has been the exclusion of Torres for the Birmingham game, though not many expert pundits would have dared say that the selection prior to kick off was not good enough to beat Birmingham FC.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing that those not in the firing line can rely on, but only as people of nothing opinions, lest they produce these opinions with true justification other than the price tag. Some of the more intelligent pundits have been honest enough to admit that they felt the LFC line up for Birmingham was more than good enough to win that game forgoing the fact the Rafa has never beaten Bruce’s Birmingham in a league game.
Rotation is a humbug for many in English football ‘experts’ just as zonal marking seems to still be. This absurdity is best highlighted by the fact that pundits will always criticise zonal marking even when the defence they criticise has proven to be the best in the country since its introduction.
Similarly, rotation is something they feel the same about and therefore will not stop criticising till the cows come home or even beyond. That dose not make them right just ignorant as I feel that there is an English malaise where anything that is not understood must be attacked. A pity but that’s the way it is.
No-one is criticising rotation in itself. However, player rotation should be a means to an end… not an end in itself. Dropping your best forward for the Brum game and then playing him at Reading in a game that is less important and likely to be easier to win…? That’s a bad decision.
And it is mainstream journos from every paper including the quality dailies criticising Benitez on that game, not just the “pundits” on MOTD.
Fifth column, aside from your perverse voyeurism towards rafa can you just clear up your reasoning on saying that reading away is an easier game than birmingham at home?
torres was more suited to last night than he would have been on saturday but that’s a different issue altogether nothing to do with how ‘easy’ a game would be.
torres was the only ‘rotation’ for that game, he didn’t pick anyone out of the ordinary in midfield or defence, so what was “very strange” about it? if you’re going to pass comment on another team at least come out with something to back it up, otherwise you just look like a clueless outsider.
The reason that Torres did not start in the last two games (omitting the CC game), was because e was punished for trouble-some behavior off the pitch.
Did anyone infer that from “not being able to operate between two lines”?
I kinda like the fact the Benitez does this rotation thing with Torress… the less he plays, the less Liverpool win… the more they are are out of the race… Go Benitez..!!
Fifth Column
British jernos are not in any way better qualified nor are you and I, or else it would be they or we who would be earning the reported £4m a year. Your opinion is valid only as far as banter and discussion is concerned, to be made an issue by those who know less of the game then those who they are critical of is a jock best told in England. It’s the same as the Defoe discussion, no top manager wants him but every pundit/jerno is screaming blue murder when he doesn’t play, even if they are happy to admit that Keane is twice the player. The fans can whinge and whine but those who are being paid for their opinions have a responsibility and need to use their brains and not just jump at the easiest band wagon. If you can explain the oddity of their criticism of zonla marking then you might be able to justify their insistence that they know better than professional mangers. It makes me wonder why they are not in management. IMO it’s the blind leading the blind and its based on attacking that which we don’t understand. Just because the majority are screaming with one voice dose not make them right as in any mob mentality.
Frank
“to be made an issue by those who know less of the game then those who they are critical of is a jock best told in England” - is that available in English? Are you suggesting I am Scottish?
Chris
Reading are going to attack at home and are going to be caught on the break easily… if West Ham can win there 3v0 then that tells you the story. Birmingham play more defensively and especially so in the Premier League. Again, look at W Ham Vs Birmingham result as an example. Brum away from home play even more defensively. Not a criticism of them at all… but for the above reasons Reading away in the League Cup is in present circumstances going to be an easier tie than Brum at home. That is demonstrated by what happened in both games and by recent results with both teams:
Brum away have let in 6. Reading at home have let in 6. Taking home and away results together Reading have let in 2 more than Brum(we’re talking Premier League only goals). Prior to the weekend’s games, Reading had 3 points less than Birmingham and goal difference that was 5 superior. All that and you haven’t beaten them in ages.
Do you want any other reasons? Or are you too much of an “outsider” [LoL] to the world of football to look at other teams’ results before suggesting that someone else’s analysis is faulty?
Fifth column, Im surprised you can’t see that the current line of thought regarding is just a convenient excuse. Il bet before Liverpool kicked off against Birmingham you werent saying anything??
MDH
I had no idea or interest what the Liverpool team was before Brum. I really don’t give a monkey’s about Liverpool. But it’s funny how much all the plastic Scousers on here defend every decision of Benitez to the death.
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fifth column “doesn’t give a monkeys about liverpool”. hilarious. the fact that he’s accountable for a quarter of the total post on this subject seems to suggests otherwise. or if that’s just him dipping his toe into liverpool waters then i’d hate to think how much time he spends on other topics. another bitter and obsessed blue perhaps?
by the way fancy a bet that by the end of the season readings home form reads better than brum’s away?
not sure what plastic scousers has got to do with anything either, a true internet warrior. think you just need to take some time out lad.
Blue? LoL. My mum is an Everton fan actually but happily she moved down to London when she was 18 so I haven’t been lumbered with the career of “car minder” once a fortnight outside Anfield or Goodison as a result. My team is rubbish compared to Liverpool and the other members of Big 4 so it really makes not the slightest difference to me how you do. But as far as posting on here goes, I posted one comment and others have replied to me and I have just replied to them. It’s entertaining - as your replies proves - to engage in debate and then get people so wound up they are reduced to insults.
You referred to me as “clueless” and I then pointed out in some detail the factual basis on which I came to my conclusion. You then choose to ignore these facts and then helpfully refer to the FUTURE results of Reading and Birmingham… it’s a bit difficult to judge form based on FUTURE results. I appreciate this may be a difficult concept but please do try and get to grips with the idea. You may then one day be able to get that “C” you’ve been trying to get as you have re-taken the Maths GCSE annually since leaving school in 1992.
“Take some time out lad”… now you do sound like Damon off Brookside, altogether now “alright alright, calm down calm down”.
PS - but who cares about this? Man Utd lose to Coventry at home. LoL.
lol nice.
but with all due respect to united the team they played never looked like they wanted to progress.
Now fellow liverpool fans rafa is not perfect he can have flaws every result of the season doesn’t string together to one big tactil plan. Personally i hate rotation but Benitez won the league with Valencia so this should work out to be consistant plan to keep our players forever fresh??
‘calm down calm down’ - brilliant, what made you come up with that? a true comedy genius. it’s obviously your dad’s side of the family who gave you that hilarious sense of humour. or is it that you just don’t quite belong anywhere down in the smoke. just another face in the crowd, so need to make a name for yourself on the internet. you go for it. i bet you think soccer am is great and have an england flag outside your house as well don’t you? can read you like a book mate.
back to the point though, we can all quote stats but some of us actually do something called ‘going to the match’, it might be worth a try. most fans (and ALL bookmakers) will tell you that reading away is a harder game than birmingham at home. but as you say going off the 6 games they’ve both played so far it’s hard to tell the difference. you could also say from the season so far that man united will finish as one of the lowest goalscorers in the premiership. going off your logic that is a dead cert.
please don’t give up the obsession though, it makes those 18 leagues and 5 european cups feel all the sweeter.
I’m a little conflicted about this…last week I wrote an article defending Rafa’s rotation, but that was based mostly on the assumption that he’d continue to rotate the way he has in the past, i.e. he’d play his best players nearly every game (Gerrard and Carragher each played around 35 games last year) and rotate the more replaceable ones. It has become clear, however, that Torres is our best striker and probably our second best player, so he really should be nearly undroppable. Now, I don’t think that the difference between Brum and Reading was just Torres–Rafa couldn’t have expected Kuyt and Voronin to play that badly and the rest of the team played better on the attack–but Rafa needs to realize that Torres is on a level with Gerrard, Carragher and Reina (and Mascherano I’d argue) as the spine of the team that really needs to play every game. I’m really tired of this topic, but Rafa is unbearably stubborn.
Chris
LoL @ Chris - think “calm down” isn’t funny but keep getting upset and do need to CALM DOWN.
As for “we won blah”… You don’t get it do you? If you don’t support any of the top 4 (and don’t support any of their direct rivals) then the “leagues and european cups” are irrelevant. Whoever wins the League makes no difference to me. I’d be happy finishing 7th.
Football from Liverpool and the top 4 is on a different planet to the other teams. It’s my ambition to see my Club win something, anything, one day… and even then I don’t really care about that too much - never seen us win anything in 20 years and don’t expect that to change any time soon. I don’t have Sky so have never watched Soccer AM and am a ST holder at my Club. I know loads of Liverpool fans… the committed ones like yourself that get all passionate and have been to Anfield fewer times than I have.
And you still haven’t managed to grasp the idea of “form”. You started talking about who will do most over the season. Now you are carrying on about making strange leaps of logic about Man Utd going through to the end of the season. I never once predicted what was going to happen to end of season. We were discussing “form” and the probablity of a result happening in one given week. I can see the inevitable failure of your maths GCSE yet again I am afraid if you can’t understand the difference between current form and performance over a whole season.
PS - I like the “England flag outside your house” - nice touch. But the reference to “lad” and “can read you like a book” just goes to prove the Damon off Brookside image. “Down in the smoke”… do northerners STILL say that? You truly are king of the professional Scousers.
where do we start with your contradictions?
1. at the start of the debate you “don’t like liverpool” the next minute you “don’t care about liverpool” give him 10 minutes and he’ll probably love us.
2. form is a good way to judge a team as long as it’s reading and birmingham but not if it’s man united.
3. you think it’s great that rafa’s apparently going to lose us the league but then later tell us that it’s got no effect on you. that’s some mood swing you’ve gone through.
4. doesn’t you replying to me mean that i’m winding you up? how do we evaluate that? is it because you said it first that means it’s me that’s on the receiving end? if so i’ll never be able to keep up with your rapier wit.
5. you told us that you had no interest in liverpool but then took great offence at being called an outsider.
can you see the path you’re on?
just a few other things in terms of life skills - repeating a jokes over and over does not make it snowball into hilarity, if anything it tends to make people look a bit of a nob and there’s also nothing sadder than laughing at your own jokes as you seem so driven to do. least of all laughing out loud at them. have you heard that song that goes ’sign on, sign on’ by the way? you’d probably wet yourself with laughter.
evidently your phenomenal maths skills you keep harping on about (we’re all in awe) haven’t left much room for anything else upstairs.
this is pretty much a vicious circle for you isn’t it?
Chris, I do believe you’re on a hiding to nothing, I think the lad is only on here as he has little else to occupy himself with. If he can’t answer your point, he tries to knock you down, a typical waste of time. I was hoping to have a debate with the lad only to realise its futile as soon as I read his first retort.
I don’t care what the Conservative party do, but I still don’t like them. I think David Cameron is a rubbish leader and he’s not going to win the election but it has no impact on my daily life. Understand what I’m saying Damon?
You still can’t grasp the difference between me coming to a conclusion based on FORM and you then coming up with references to what happens to Man Utd at the end of the season. Repeating the joke may not be funny but repeating something which is entirely irrelevant demonstrates you don’t understand that basic point.
Beyond which, I would respectfully point out that if you go back up the thread, I never posted anything whatsoever in relation to you until you referred to me posting an opinion on the Reds as, “perverse voyeurism” and a “clueless outsider”. If you want rational debate that’s fair enough. If you don’t want a pointless vicious circle of an argument then best not to start one in the first place eh?
The one positive thing I will say about Liverpool and Everton fans at Anfield and Goodison is that you can have a bit of banter with them… and with the Liverpool fans you can continue it with them back on the train to London before they get the tube to Waterloo and go back home to Windsor.
So did you support Sale before Liverpool won the European Cup then?
and still the contradictions pour forth. you’ll have to make your mind up as to what i am. so far i’m a match-going, non-match going, typical scouser, plastic scouser, professional scouser, non-scouser, living in liverpool, living in windsor, liverpool fan, sale fan.
almost as multi-faceted a personality as yourself in fact.
as for the ‘form’ thing you seem to have left the original point behind altogether which was that torres scoring a hat-trick against reading away doesnt automatically mean he would have made the difference against brum. as you said yourself in ANOTHER of your contradictions birmingham play a lot tighter and would never give us the space that torres operates better in.
it’s easy to say what should have happened after an event but even yourself, the magnificent hindsight-kid, wouldn’t have thought that prior to the brum game liverpool put out a dodgy team.
just out of interest do you go on politics forums and tell everyone how much you don’t care for cameron and the tories or is that little personality glitch of talking about things you’re indifferent to solely reserved for liverpool?
end of the day at least i’m actually discussing/wasting my time on MY OWN CLUB. judging by the time you’ve spent on this small aspect of a team you don’t care about i can’t imagine how much passion you must have for things that you DO have an interest in.
anyway these are my last comments on the matter, as frank says the debate has long passed and if i read ANOTHER of your inevitable ‘damon’ or ‘liverpool fans aren’t from liverpool’ quips in your response i’m worried that i’ll wake the baby with roaring laughter. (i’m sure you’ll prove me right by replying though). i had a nan who could take the piss out of me better than you.
have a good one anyway.