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	<title>Comments on: The death of football</title>
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		<title>By: Money and the Premier$hip &#124; Soccerlens - Football News Blog</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-49176</link>
		<dc:creator>Money and the Premier$hip &#124; Soccerlens - Football News Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 04:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] time I delved into the growing discrepancy in talent between the top teams in the world and everyone else. I offered nothing in terms of solutions in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] time I delved into the growing discrepancy in talent between the top teams in the world and everyone else. I offered nothing in terms of solutions in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: karl</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48811</link>
		<dc:creator>karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 08:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting comment Tomas. A bit long, but very informative.

Does the Champions League structure not also contribute to the rift of T4 and the rest?
Firstly, I think it should be renamed to something else. Champions League - I feel - implies that the Champions of each country fight it out with each other in order to decide who is the Euro champion. Not, the top4 of this country, the top2 of that one, and these ones need to have a play-off. I think this structure, although good for viewing and money, causes the rift to become even greater and loses the true meaning of &#039;champions&#039;. Eg. Liverpool won the CL (but have NEVER won the English Premier), Chelsea won the EPL. What exactly did this &#039;champions&#039; mean? Who was the champions, the better team, them or Chelsea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comment Tomas. A bit long, but very informative.</p>
<p>Does the Champions League structure not also contribute to the rift of T4 and the rest?<br />
Firstly, I think it should be renamed to something else. Champions League &#8211; I feel &#8211; implies that the Champions of each country fight it out with each other in order to decide who is the Euro champion. Not, the top4 of this country, the top2 of that one, and these ones need to have a play-off. I think this structure, although good for viewing and money, causes the rift to become even greater and loses the true meaning of &#8216;champions&#8217;. Eg. Liverpool won the CL (but have NEVER won the English Premier), Chelsea won the EPL. What exactly did this &#8216;champions&#8217; mean? Who was the champions, the better team, them or Chelsea?</p>
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		<title>By: NiKOS</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48783</link>
		<dc:creator>NiKOS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48783</guid>
		<description>As you can see there are not only the top teams in a specific league that grow and become SUPER GIANTS,but also the poor leagues that become poorer(the Markov Rule).We have(France),Greece,(Portugal),Russia,Sweden,Denmark,Scotland,Hungary,Austria,Romania,the Yugoslavian countries and other countries with great football trandition that don&#039;t have a competitive team in the Champions League and they will never have.Even if they will,it will be cause of new Abramovichs.So,commercial and financial benefits from Champions League and other TV products are for rich leagues and rich teams.
This means that historical teams such as Red Star,Celtic,CSKA Moscow etc. have no future in the European competitions while the Tottenahams,Sevillas and Udieses do have really strong and European squads.Also,the talents that can be produced by the poorer (also historical) teams have the ability to become EPL and La Liga superstars and it&#039;s a fact they prefer this one than their first love.You may produce a talent but you&#039;ll lose it,cause you did&#039;t have the money and you&#039;ll never have under these circumstances.
The conclusion is that market&#039;s rules and football competitions such as CL,that gives all the money to the rich teams, are the reasons that football in poor Countries -and clubs- suffers.All you have to do is to change them but how can we do it?I think we can just sit down comfortably and enjoy the scene.
Ahmed I was going to write a huge article refering to historical teams and how CL and free market have destroyed them.Unfortunately,longshot got it first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you can see there are not only the top teams in a specific league that grow and become SUPER GIANTS,but also the poor leagues that become poorer(the Markov Rule).We have(France),Greece,(Portugal),Russia,Sweden,Denmark,Scotland,Hungary,Austria,Romania,the Yugoslavian countries and other countries with great football trandition that don&#8217;t have a competitive team in the Champions League and they will never have.Even if they will,it will be cause of new Abramovichs.So,commercial and financial benefits from Champions League and other TV products are for rich leagues and rich teams.<br />
This means that historical teams such as Red Star,Celtic,CSKA Moscow etc. have no future in the European competitions while the Tottenahams,Sevillas and Udieses do have really strong and European squads.Also,the talents that can be produced by the poorer (also historical) teams have the ability to become EPL and La Liga superstars and it&#8217;s a fact they prefer this one than their first love.You may produce a talent but you&#8217;ll lose it,cause you did&#8217;t have the money and you&#8217;ll never have under these circumstances.<br />
The conclusion is that market&#8217;s rules and football competitions such as CL,that gives all the money to the rich teams, are the reasons that football in poor Countries -and clubs- suffers.All you have to do is to change them but how can we do it?I think we can just sit down comfortably and enjoy the scene.<br />
Ahmed I was going to write a huge article refering to historical teams and how CL and free market have destroyed them.Unfortunately,longshot got it first.</p>
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		<title>By: MKHAMMER</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48768</link>
		<dc:creator>MKHAMMER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48768</guid>
		<description>i fink da gulf is too big abn sumit needs to be done but fuked if i now wot 2 do bowt it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i fink da gulf is too big abn sumit needs to be done but fuked if i now wot 2 do bowt it</p>
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		<title>By: Tomas</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48765</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48765</guid>
		<description>Very interesting article. Since there&#039;s been so many comments on the difference in system overall between footie in Europe, and the American sports, I won&#039;t add to that.

My comment is more on the predictability of the major leagues (or probably all leagues), since I only partly agree. Yes, it is easy to see who will constitute the top 4 in England next year and probably the year after, but you can&#039;t predict it much further into the future, since there&#039;s actually quite a few changes made historically. I know your point is that it&#039;s an increasing problem, but I think we&#039;ve been saying that for quite some years now, and still there have been changes in the leagues (let&#039;s stick with the 4 major ones). Basically very few teams manage to stay on top for a very long time. By far the most predictable leagues have been Serie A , where Juventus, Inter Milan, AC Milan and then most of the time Roma, have constituted the top 4 (T4) lately, and the Premiership.

I have only looked 5-6 years back, and still there are probably more changes, than most people think. In Germany the only regular contender since the 2001/02 season has, of course, been Bayern MÃ¼nich - but they have &quot;only&quot; won it 3 times out of 6. All other top 4 teams since then are: Stuttgart, Schalke, Bremen, HSV, Hertha Berlin, Leverkusen, Dortmund - that&#039;s a total of 8 teams in the T4. Bremen have had 4 appearences in the T4, and Shalke and Stuttgart both 3. Quite irregular in general.

In Spain the only team to appear in the T4 every year is Real Madrid (won it 2 times incl this season - my guess). Barca ended 6th in 02/03 (won it 2 times), but has been up there all the other years. Other T4 teams have been: Sevilla, Valencia, Villareal, Real Betis, Deportivo, Real Sociedad, Celta Vigo - that&#039;s a total of 9 teams. Valencia have been in there 4 times, Deportivo 3 times, the rest 2 or less.

In England MU (naturally - have made the T4 in very very many years in a row, quite remarkable imo) and Arsenal have been regulars. Chelsea have had 5 appearences, Liverpool 4, Newcastle 2 and Everton 1. Quite predictable, I agree. But the thing is, a lot of things happen to change these tendencies. Before Abramovich, Chelsea were the Tottenham and Everton of today, fighting it out for UEFA cup spots. I know the argument may not be the strongest when looking at England, but I&#039;m pretty sure that we&#039;ll see changes in not too many years even in England. Tottenham might have a crack at the T4 next season.

My point is that even though the leagues may seem predictable, I think it&#039;s only in the short term, we can really be sure, which is why the sport will continue to be thrilling. 

Plus there is, as pointed out by some, the fan factor - everyone has his or her team, and they&#039;ll support it no matter what. The goal of Blackburn will not be the title next season, it&#039;ll be making it to the T6 for UEFA cup. Those not supporting the major teams, use a lot of energy not-liking the major clubs too, and so it&#039;s a game of passion, where every club with its supporters have goals to aim at, and successes to dream of - the game lives more than ever imo.

I hope my points came across and that anybody cared to read my rather long contribution to the matter. Great debate this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting article. Since there&#8217;s been so many comments on the difference in system overall between footie in Europe, and the American sports, I won&#8217;t add to that.</p>
<p>My comment is more on the predictability of the major leagues (or probably all leagues), since I only partly agree. Yes, it is easy to see who will constitute the top 4 in England next year and probably the year after, but you can&#8217;t predict it much further into the future, since there&#8217;s actually quite a few changes made historically. I know your point is that it&#8217;s an increasing problem, but I think we&#8217;ve been saying that for quite some years now, and still there have been changes in the leagues (let&#8217;s stick with the 4 major ones). Basically very few teams manage to stay on top for a very long time. By far the most predictable leagues have been Serie A , where Juventus, Inter Milan, AC Milan and then most of the time Roma, have constituted the top 4 (T4) lately, and the Premiership.</p>
<p>I have only looked 5-6 years back, and still there are probably more changes, than most people think. In Germany the only regular contender since the 2001/02 season has, of course, been Bayern MÃ¼nich &#8211; but they have &#8220;only&#8221; won it 3 times out of 6. All other top 4 teams since then are: Stuttgart, Schalke, Bremen, HSV, Hertha Berlin, Leverkusen, Dortmund &#8211; that&#8217;s a total of 8 teams in the T4. Bremen have had 4 appearences in the T4, and Shalke and Stuttgart both 3. Quite irregular in general.</p>
<p>In Spain the only team to appear in the T4 every year is Real Madrid (won it 2 times incl this season &#8211; my guess). Barca ended 6th in 02/03 (won it 2 times), but has been up there all the other years. Other T4 teams have been: Sevilla, Valencia, Villareal, Real Betis, Deportivo, Real Sociedad, Celta Vigo &#8211; that&#8217;s a total of 9 teams. Valencia have been in there 4 times, Deportivo 3 times, the rest 2 or less.</p>
<p>In England MU (naturally &#8211; have made the T4 in very very many years in a row, quite remarkable imo) and Arsenal have been regulars. Chelsea have had 5 appearences, Liverpool 4, Newcastle 2 and Everton 1. Quite predictable, I agree. But the thing is, a lot of things happen to change these tendencies. Before Abramovich, Chelsea were the Tottenham and Everton of today, fighting it out for UEFA cup spots. I know the argument may not be the strongest when looking at England, but I&#8217;m pretty sure that we&#8217;ll see changes in not too many years even in England. Tottenham might have a crack at the T4 next season.</p>
<p>My point is that even though the leagues may seem predictable, I think it&#8217;s only in the short term, we can really be sure, which is why the sport will continue to be thrilling. </p>
<p>Plus there is, as pointed out by some, the fan factor &#8211; everyone has his or her team, and they&#8217;ll support it no matter what. The goal of Blackburn will not be the title next season, it&#8217;ll be making it to the T6 for UEFA cup. Those not supporting the major teams, use a lot of energy not-liking the major clubs too, and so it&#8217;s a game of passion, where every club with its supporters have goals to aim at, and successes to dream of &#8211; the game lives more than ever imo.</p>
<p>I hope my points came across and that anybody cared to read my rather long contribution to the matter. Great debate this one.</p>
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		<title>By: longshot</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48757</link>
		<dc:creator>longshot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48757</guid>
		<description>Hi all, thanks for all your comments and sorry I haven&#039;t been able to reply sooner (internet issues).

I agree that the concept of relegation and promotion as well as the established method of scouting early and bringing in 14-15 year olds means that the idea of an amateur draft is pretty much impossible to implement in the football leagues.

That being said, I&#039;m sorry for being unclear in the article about my solution(s).  The point of the article was to simply point out the problem I see in the football world and contrast it with the situation in America.

I&#039;m going to work on a follow up article that takes a look at the EPL and how to solve the increasing financial and talent gap.  

If anyone has any details on where I can find how the FA distributes revenue/prizes/money to the teams, I&#039;d appreciate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all, thanks for all your comments and sorry I haven&#8217;t been able to reply sooner (internet issues).</p>
<p>I agree that the concept of relegation and promotion as well as the established method of scouting early and bringing in 14-15 year olds means that the idea of an amateur draft is pretty much impossible to implement in the football leagues.</p>
<p>That being said, I&#8217;m sorry for being unclear in the article about my solution(s).  The point of the article was to simply point out the problem I see in the football world and contrast it with the situation in America.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to work on a follow up article that takes a look at the EPL and how to solve the increasing financial and talent gap.  </p>
<p>If anyone has any details on where I can find how the FA distributes revenue/prizes/money to the teams, I&#8217;d appreciate it.</p>
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		<title>By: avrv</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48752</link>
		<dc:creator>avrv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48752</guid>
		<description>Just to address the point of a salary cap, it&#039;s an idea that&#039;s been floated a few times, and some clubs have even willingly imposed something similar to one (I believe the G14 is trying to do so), which consists of limiting club wages to a certain percentage of annual turnover. And perhaps within a more homogenous organization like the G14, or as a requirement for Champions&#039; League participation, it could work to a certain extent, i.e. guaranteeing the fiscal responsibilities of the clubs. But in a domestic league? I think not. The budgets of clubs are too diverse. If you maintain it as a percentage, say 60%, then the situation remains the same; 60% of Nastic&#039;s budget of 15m euros is 9m. 60% of Real Madrid&#039;s budget is 180m euros. I don&#039;t see how this solves anything, the gap remains the same. Even medium sized clubs in Spain (and Im sure the cases are similar in Italy, England, and elsewhere), have budgets that are 8 or 10 times smaller than the those of the biggest clubs. Do you limit wages to a fixed level? 50m euros is only 16-20% for teams like Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd. It is well over 100% for teams like Mallorca, Racing Santander, and many others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to address the point of a salary cap, it&#8217;s an idea that&#8217;s been floated a few times, and some clubs have even willingly imposed something similar to one (I believe the G14 is trying to do so), which consists of limiting club wages to a certain percentage of annual turnover. And perhaps within a more homogenous organization like the G14, or as a requirement for Champions&#8217; League participation, it could work to a certain extent, i.e. guaranteeing the fiscal responsibilities of the clubs. But in a domestic league? I think not. The budgets of clubs are too diverse. If you maintain it as a percentage, say 60%, then the situation remains the same; 60% of Nastic&#8217;s budget of 15m euros is 9m. 60% of Real Madrid&#8217;s budget is 180m euros. I don&#8217;t see how this solves anything, the gap remains the same. Even medium sized clubs in Spain (and Im sure the cases are similar in Italy, England, and elsewhere), have budgets that are 8 or 10 times smaller than the those of the biggest clubs. Do you limit wages to a fixed level? 50m euros is only 16-20% for teams like Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd. It is well over 100% for teams like Mallorca, Racing Santander, and many others.</p>
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		<title>By: A</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48748</link>
		<dc:creator>A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48748</guid>
		<description>Just for reference sake, there cannot be a salary cap in Europe because of EU laws which prevents a cap on salaries on any industry plied in Europe. Plus once again you can just choose players and expect them to play for you because once again, EU law is very strict on free trade of human labour to a company. I&#039;m no lawyer but i think this is what the law basically states. Once again good article and got the problem spot on, but cant really see any way out of it. But about what Ed said, i dont think takeovers is really the solution either. To be fair, we are still only a couple of years into foreign take overs and while things seem ok now, they might not be in the future. The problem is you cant run a football club like a company because the stake holders are more valuable and important that the share holders. The new investors may seem eager to pump in money now to ease fear in the fan base but in a few years when time comes to balance the books and make profits, i think it could be a whole world of trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for reference sake, there cannot be a salary cap in Europe because of EU laws which prevents a cap on salaries on any industry plied in Europe. Plus once again you can just choose players and expect them to play for you because once again, EU law is very strict on free trade of human labour to a company. I&#8217;m no lawyer but i think this is what the law basically states. Once again good article and got the problem spot on, but cant really see any way out of it. But about what Ed said, i dont think takeovers is really the solution either. To be fair, we are still only a couple of years into foreign take overs and while things seem ok now, they might not be in the future. The problem is you cant run a football club like a company because the stake holders are more valuable and important that the share holders. The new investors may seem eager to pump in money now to ease fear in the fan base but in a few years when time comes to balance the books and make profits, i think it could be a whole world of trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48721</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48721</guid>
		<description>for me football is getting better every year!! dont fix something that isnt broken! but i think if the gulf gets 2 big, then something shud be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>for me football is getting better every year!! dont fix something that isnt broken! but i think if the gulf gets 2 big, then something shud be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48708</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/the-death-of-football/2009/#comment-48708</guid>
		<description>Ah, a salary cap has certain benefits, but you&#039;d have to be able to have this cap imposed upon the entirety of Europe, or all English teams would be facing a severe disadvantaged when they competed continentally.

Certainly, while the influence of cash is felt at every level, it isn&#039;t the sole determination of success. While it can buy temporary, short-term success (Chelsea), it doesn&#039;t change the simple fact that the way to long-term success is through the creation of a better organization as a whole. In the long run, the business model of an organization such as Chelsea is bound for failure. Simply, no football team can have substainable success wasting such an influx of cash on marginal players, as they have. For every dollar spent on Bollack, it removes a dollar from play on the rest.

The pyschology of a sports fan is interesting. It&#039;s almost like a battered wife; they&#039;re smacked around and around, but still continue to support their team. Because of a simple location and the jersey, the majority of a fans are willing to support a club through its losses, unappreciative foreign players, and continually increasing prices. Each of these have in the past been used to forecast the ruin of the league, but I think the overall cumulative affect will not.

Rather, the only real threat I see is the growing popularity of other sports leagues within traditional football countries. Previous to the 1960&#039;s, MLB was the sole team sport of significance within America, but after the introduction of American football, and the later introduction of basketball, the percentage of the marketplace significantly dropped. Will this equal the ruination of the game? No, of course not. Baseball is thriving with record revenues, as of now. Football will have to grow increasingly competetive and adopt a more fan-friendly atmosphere, though.

Also, while in theory you&#039;re right about MLB teams having an amateur draft, the best prospects still end up with the richer teams by placing wage demands higher than the poor teams are willing to expend for an eighteen year old with less than a fifty percent chance of reaching the major rules.

On the Beckham rule, Corey, I don&#039;t believe the intention was to limit high-priced players, but to allow the club to go outside of the salary cap to have up to two exemptions whose salaries do not count within it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, a salary cap has certain benefits, but you&#8217;d have to be able to have this cap imposed upon the entirety of Europe, or all English teams would be facing a severe disadvantaged when they competed continentally.</p>
<p>Certainly, while the influence of cash is felt at every level, it isn&#8217;t the sole determination of success. While it can buy temporary, short-term success (Chelsea), it doesn&#8217;t change the simple fact that the way to long-term success is through the creation of a better organization as a whole. In the long run, the business model of an organization such as Chelsea is bound for failure. Simply, no football team can have substainable success wasting such an influx of cash on marginal players, as they have. For every dollar spent on Bollack, it removes a dollar from play on the rest.</p>
<p>The pyschology of a sports fan is interesting. It&#8217;s almost like a battered wife; they&#8217;re smacked around and around, but still continue to support their team. Because of a simple location and the jersey, the majority of a fans are willing to support a club through its losses, unappreciative foreign players, and continually increasing prices. Each of these have in the past been used to forecast the ruin of the league, but I think the overall cumulative affect will not.</p>
<p>Rather, the only real threat I see is the growing popularity of other sports leagues within traditional football countries. Previous to the 1960&#8242;s, MLB was the sole team sport of significance within America, but after the introduction of American football, and the later introduction of basketball, the percentage of the marketplace significantly dropped. Will this equal the ruination of the game? No, of course not. Baseball is thriving with record revenues, as of now. Football will have to grow increasingly competetive and adopt a more fan-friendly atmosphere, though.</p>
<p>Also, while in theory you&#8217;re right about MLB teams having an amateur draft, the best prospects still end up with the richer teams by placing wage demands higher than the poor teams are willing to expend for an eighteen year old with less than a fifty percent chance of reaching the major rules.</p>
<p>On the Beckham rule, Corey, I don&#8217;t believe the intention was to limit high-priced players, but to allow the club to go outside of the salary cap to have up to two exemptions whose salaries do not count within it.</p>
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