Team England or Team GB - The London 2012 Debate
Politics and sports seldom mix, especially when sport is seen as a tool to gain political leverage (either by those using it or those protesting against it).
And when the sport is as widespread and as passionate as football, with the politics as acrimonious and divisive as those of Great Britain, mixing the two is a bad, bad idea - not as bad as the 2012 Olympics logo (above), but nearing the same lengths of ridiculous head-in-the-sand behavior.
With London hosting the 2012 Olympics, should there be a Team GB or a Team England to represent the host nation?
There are several questions that are being asked, such whether Team GB stands a better chance of winning a medal than Team England, or whether FIFA will push GB to put out a unified team for all international competitions after the 2012 Olympics.
But the core issue isn’t about football, it’s politics. England wants to present a happy, united front. Scotland couldn’t care less, Wales aren’t bothered and Northern Ireland don’t fancy the English too much either.
Even if you leave aside the internal political squabbling (especially between Scotland and England), England asking the Scots, Welsh and the Irish to come together for a common cause is the political equivalent of Russia going to the Uzbeks and Kazakhs and asking them to unite the football teams for Moscow 2024 (or whenever). Or India asking Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh to put out a united football team for the Olympics. Or the US asking Mexico and Canada to subsume their national football teams into one grand North American footballing giant for greater glory.
England’s backing of the Team GB agenda is seen as evidence that the big bully in the neighborhood is trying to take control of their lives again. It’s on a subconscious level and it might be unfounded, but that fear and resistance will be there and nothing England or FIFA can say will remove it.
Politics and football don’t mix, especially when the football is for political purposes and the political buzzword is independence. In fact, the more England pushes the Team GB agenda, the more you can expect elements in Scotland and elsewhere to vocalize their dislike for the politics of GB and ask for autonomy.
Still want a Team GB, Lord Moynihan?
I believe to get the best GB football team, you should be able to select the best players from Great Britain, regardless of their affiliated association.
However, since the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish associations are against coming together even for a one-off there is little anyone can do.
However, it would also seem the big bully for England to just go ahead and represent the whole of GB at 2012. So the best option it would seem is to have a mini league prior to London 2012, with Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland.
It removes the unification puzzle, and the inadequate situation where a team playing on the pitch doesn’t represent Great Britain. After all, the team who will be playing has earned the right to represent themselves as Britain’s best football team.
This is an interesting one. Why anyone from Scotland, Wales or NI should have a problem is beyond me. Let’s face it, none of them have a prayer in terms of qualifying on theiir own so this is the only way that their best players would have a shot.
But the main problem would be the politics of sport. Who manages the team (SAF?) and who selects the squad? The ’smaller’ 3 would want their representatives, but in reality the majority of the contenders would come from England so you end up with endless arguments and a ‘political’ compromise.
There’s always been an argument for a single GB team, in all competitions…soverign state, common government etc. etc.
It’s another legacy of the empire.
But why am I going on so much…I couldn’t care less and am on record as saying that I think professional football has no place at the Olympics.
Messi having to risk getting injured at a 2nd rate event like this is beyond belief!
Sheesh! Can you imagine what the process for selecting a manager would be? One FA can hardly do it without stuffing it up - what would happen when four FAs get involved?????????
nah, i dont see a Team GB or Team England in 2012.
firstly, the coaching staff, who?
secondly, picking the squad. Yup, most will be from England.
third, can they play together?
Um, Ahmed.. you’re mistaken… Great Britain is one nation politically, but the USA, India, and Russia examples you said are different: Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Canada, Mexico, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and Pakistan are all sovereign nations; Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England are not. However, a GB team would be a horrible idea.
Giacomo - I know the political realities of both sets of nations - I was highlighting the type of resentment this would create.
England should not be shoved in to represent GB at the olympics. Why are the English FA so bloody ignorant in matters such as these. They can’t even bring themselves to fly England’s flag over Wembley, what chance have we got?
I’m hoping the uk will have imploded by the time the london olypics starts.
I doubt if many English fans would want a GB team either. Fuck the FA and fuck our British rulers. In fact, fuck Britain, the Scots and the Welsh.
Fuck ‘em all. Fuck their whinging, fuck their whining and racism, fuck their nasty nations. Fuck ‘em all.
Independence for England NOW!!!!!!!!
Usually I’d delete this but I can’t help but sympathise with Helen…after all, oppressors need to be freed as well…
The solution to this is obvious, rather than try and force an unwanted UK “national” team upon the English, Scots and Welsh the opposite should be happening and the British Olympic teams should be brought into line with other sports and become English, Scottish and Welsh Olympic teams.
England is a nation tricked 300 years ago into being part of a never really united kingdom they did not want much then or now. Those other places you mention are also nations. Diferent ones with their own flags and feelings, myths etc
Why we in England have to roped into sharing our go at the Olympic games with them, particularly when they make it plain they hate us, God only knows.
With a bit of luck by 2012 we will have got shot of them and their mental hangups and we can fly the English flag just like very other country flies its own flag.
Simple really.
England should play all sports as England! I cannot bring myself to support a British team. Many Scottish and Welsh people can’t stand us English so why should we participate in a British team?
Hopefully Scotland will declare independence then we can bring an end to this British nonsense
I believe Helen has got it just right
I agree with Helen (no.8)above.
The FA is a joke, when will they stand up for England instead of going along with this British nonsense.
I will never support a British Team, even if it is exclusively English. Independance for England!
On this subject i will take the stance of that well loved sour miserable, childish and aggresive little scotsman Andy murray who said Quote “Any one but England”,
my Quote “Any one but Britain”
I hope it goes ahead. I am British NOT English. Also, I wouldn’t mind seeing FIFA use its existence as an excuse to get rid of the divisive separate ‘teams’. It isn’t as if we would miss them because ‘Ingerland’s pathetic ‘team’ especially can’t be bothered about 99% of the time. Gordon Brown should have some talks with FIFA about this and then they can effet the abolishment of the separate teams and he can claim it is a ruling from the EU or something (this could be a possbility as the Lisbon Treaty gives the EU powers over sport).
Rule Britannia!
The whole idea of a GB team is a joke, and it annoys me that our own FA halfwits are still pushing the idea. England, Scotland and the rest are all different nations, and should always play as such, whether it be the World Cup, The Olympics or whatever. Hardly anybody wants a GB team - I feel full of apathy whenever I have to sit and watch a GB team. I’m English and I want to see an English representative team in all sports. The Yoo-Kay will hopefully collapse soon anyway, though I suspect that it will be the Scots who will push this through as too many English people are still asleep on this issue. Be honest, how many English people do you know who STILL regularly confuse the terms ‘English’ with ‘British’? Why? Pathetic isn’t it?
Not only will I refuse to support a British team, I’ll actively support their opposition. All England fans should do the same.
I’m English forever!
British never!
I couldn’t care less that Nicole Cook has won gold at the Beijing Olympics. She doesn’t represent me any more than Andy Murray does.
I don’t support any British team. In fact I rarely support an English team as they all seem to be full of foreigners.
Diversity means exclusivity and it is the English being excluded.
Oh and by the way. To be English you have to think it in your head and feel it in your heart. It doesn’t matter what colour a person is. However, regardless of your colour you get Britishness rammed down your throat while in England. The moment you step over a border into Scotland or Wales you get your Englishness rammed down your throat.
The deadliest enemies of the English are the British and I will never support a British team.
Barry No.16 you clearly now more about politics than sport, you stick with Brown and the Lisbon Treaty while the rest (poss 99%) of us true sport loving patriots stick with our home nations…. Ty.
Stephen Gash, you have just illustrated perfectly why those who call themselves English ‘nationalists’ never get anywhere. Even many lefties say Englishness is an ethnic identity so why do people like the English Democrats attempt to put just a civic label on it? Is it because they don’t know the difference between an ethnic identity and a civic identity or because they are scared of being called ‘fascist’, ‘racist’, blah, blah, blah? I would suggest English nationalists would get further if they dropped the civic pretence and admitted Englishness is an ethnic identity and had policies framed around that idea such as wishing for very tough immigration controls, the deportation of illegal immigrants ect. If they don’t they shouldn’t be surprised if people just think they are another collection of PC tossers with a bad attitude problem towards Scots and Welsh people.
Glenn, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the FA were totally in on this along with the ‘England’ football team. Let’s face facts here, most of the ‘team’s’ members couldn’t give a toss about winning and many times deliberately don’t try. Now, I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any means but I wouldnt’ be at all surprised if the government told the FA to tell the ‘team’ not to try too hard as they don’t wish to see any of the teams get to a tournament let alone win it. The England ‘team’s’ gorup opponents last year should have been fairly easy to win against and the fact that they didn’t raises some suspicions. What is the betting that Wayne Rooney and company do the same with regard to their World Cup 2010 qualifying opponents this year and next? They probably will get a big bonous from the FA not to win and Mr Brown will be giving them a pep talk!
Most of the squad from england?? Check the world Rankings England 14th, Scotland 16th, not a big difference, and Northern Ireland 32nd and Wales 51st.
Im pretty sure England and Scotland should have the majority of the team if it does happen, with a few from Wales and Northern Ireland. England hasn’t done much, even the young squads haven’t shown anything promising. Scotland has a way better junior squad and should have qualified for the EuroCup beating France twice in qualifiers in one of the hardest pools! Of course England did as well but I don’t why everyones mindset that GB should be majority english players??
reminder it is U23 at the Olympics, if anything Scotland has a stronger young squad than England. 50/50 for Scotland and England, and a few spots for Northern ireland/Wales, but no way majority England and no way equal number from each nation. Either way though if it does happen for 2012 and the team gets along were going for a medal.
I would love to see what would happen with the fans especially if the flag ban continues…could you imagine a stadium full of scottish welsh northern irish and english fans not being able to express which side they are…..would they all dress up with GB flags on their faces and cheer together??? hahaha I would pay to see that
I believe we should have a Team GB because without Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland we would probably only win about 3 medals. Although we (England) don’t really care about the other three countries that make up team GB, we need them in order to move up the medal table and beat the Australians who beat us at everything including the Olympics. The most embarrassing thing is that their population is a third the size of ours and the majority of our athletes aren’t even born in GB either. Not to mention UK spends the most amount of money on their Olympic athletes with the recent Olympic budget of £235m invested from lottery and public funds. Did I mention we are doing quite well for a nation short on pools and soap?
I totally agree Paul. Those Aussies are tough to beat!
I only support Team Wales at this Olympics anyway… I couldn’t care less how many gold England, Scotland, Ireland or France win.
If the English are truly English - cross of St George and all that - then they will vote against this.
It harms our own footballing history and the English team.
Let’s follow the Scots, Welsh and anyone else for that matter and be proud of our country.
Hell no, England needs to stand alone in representation. England is represented alone when they are in the World Cup, and they need be represented as “England” in the football tourney in the 2012 games. I look forward to hopefully flying to England in four years to attend a match between England and Argentina in the games. Damn, what a game that would be on the world stage. Hopefully it will be a rematch of the World Cup Final in Johannesburg where England can beat Argentina’s ass for the title.
I do not believe this