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	<title>Comments on: Soccerlens: Fans More Fickle Than Ronaldo</title>
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		<title>By: Ahmed Bilal</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98880</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahmed Bilal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 06:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98880</guid>
		<description>RvN - that&#039;s called &#039;everyone being responsible for their own actions&#039;. It&#039;s not as easily cut and dry or black and white as you&#039;d like your world to be. At the end of the day though, the fans are wrong for &#039;hating&#039; Ronaldo, and that&#039;s the point of the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RvN &#8211; that&#8217;s called &#8216;everyone being responsible for their own actions&#8217;. It&#8217;s not as easily cut and dry or black and white as you&#8217;d like your world to be. At the end of the day though, the fans are wrong for &#8216;hating&#8217; Ronaldo, and that&#8217;s the point of the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruud van Nistelrooy</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98861</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruud van Nistelrooy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98861</guid>
		<description>By the contents of this article, I&#039;d have to say I find Ahmed Bilal and his comments to be more hypocritical than the fans being criticized. He obviously cannot determine whom to blame for this Ronaldo saga. First he criticizes Real Madrid for all sorts of crazy things which have no evidence, but then, although quite rightfully so, blames Ronaldo for his public statements and for his refusal to quelch the rumors. Is he done yet pointing fingers? No, he turns around and blames the fans for turning their back on Ronaldo. Brilliant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the contents of this article, I&#8217;d have to say I find Ahmed Bilal and his comments to be more hypocritical than the fans being criticized. He obviously cannot determine whom to blame for this Ronaldo saga. First he criticizes Real Madrid for all sorts of crazy things which have no evidence, but then, although quite rightfully so, blames Ronaldo for his public statements and for his refusal to quelch the rumors. Is he done yet pointing fingers? No, he turns around and blames the fans for turning their back on Ronaldo. Brilliant.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr McMorgan</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98756</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr McMorgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98756</guid>
		<description>I totally agree. 

In fact, having lived as a fan through most of the dark years between 1968 and 1993, I sometimes find it embarassing how some fans treat the players (and club) they say they love. 

â€What we need now is a player like that guy from Brazil, or Italy, or Spain, you know the guy, you can see him on youtube, 57 seconds of magic. Why donÂ´t our players perform like that? All the time. They are such rubbish, get them out! Champions? Luck, I tell you, luck. And Chelsea has Big Phil now, and Deco.  We must act!

But if that guy doesnâ€™t show his magic repeatedly in the first half of the first match, then let us castrate him, in public and buy this guy instead. He scored nine goals in Serie A, and someone who knows a lot about football says he is the new Pele, or Maradona, or at least Lineker...â€ 

I mean, there is no wonder Ronaldo is looked upon as bad guy. A missed penalty is for many as bad as a knife in their mumÂ´s back, a bad day is comparable to treason, an injury is a sign of disloyalty and spending one month of summer without buying the world is an insult to everything and anything anyone hold dear.  

And if you are just a hard working, quiet, loyal team worker who go out to do your job without any fuss, (which any team deperately needs), then you are rubbish, shite, scum and should be given away to the nearest pub team. 

The solution is always to get in someone else, preferably a superstar like Messi or Kaka, or even Pirlo or Villa. Or at least someone who can deliver the Premiership and the Champions League by September (and in exciting fashion). The grass always seem to be greener on the other side â€“ or rather in the other sides â€“ our players deliver the Premiership and the Champions League and fans deliver abuse. Where is the loyalty in that? 

If you have called Ryan Giggs rubbish just because he isnâ€™t as fast as he was in 1996, if you have called Saha lazy, or Carrick useless, or questioned the most winning manager of all times just because he doesnâ€™t swap his whole Champion-team for Kaka â€“ then you shold not speak about loyalty. Then you should shut up until you have something useful to say.  

And furthermore â€“ if you want these great players as seen on the telly - great players from great football nations with great football clubs â€“ do not expect them to have a secret dream about playing for United, to love the club as if it was their local club, and to show this love and loyalty at any time and with as much force and passion as humanly possible. 

Because kids in other country, in other football cultures, may very well dream of something else than United and Manchester. And all though you can buy their skills, you cannot buy their dreams. The only thing you can hope for is to make an impression good enough to convince them they live in another dream, just as good.

And if you donâ€™t want this â€“ then donâ€™t expect to win everything all the time. It is as easy as that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree. </p>
<p>In fact, having lived as a fan through most of the dark years between 1968 and 1993, I sometimes find it embarassing how some fans treat the players (and club) they say they love. </p>
<p>â€What we need now is a player like that guy from Brazil, or Italy, or Spain, you know the guy, you can see him on youtube, 57 seconds of magic. Why donÂ´t our players perform like that? All the time. They are such rubbish, get them out! Champions? Luck, I tell you, luck. And Chelsea has Big Phil now, and Deco.  We must act!</p>
<p>But if that guy doesnâ€™t show his magic repeatedly in the first half of the first match, then let us castrate him, in public and buy this guy instead. He scored nine goals in Serie A, and someone who knows a lot about football says he is the new Pele, or Maradona, or at least Lineker&#8230;â€ </p>
<p>I mean, there is no wonder Ronaldo is looked upon as bad guy. A missed penalty is for many as bad as a knife in their mumÂ´s back, a bad day is comparable to treason, an injury is a sign of disloyalty and spending one month of summer without buying the world is an insult to everything and anything anyone hold dear.  </p>
<p>And if you are just a hard working, quiet, loyal team worker who go out to do your job without any fuss, (which any team deperately needs), then you are rubbish, shite, scum and should be given away to the nearest pub team. </p>
<p>The solution is always to get in someone else, preferably a superstar like Messi or Kaka, or even Pirlo or Villa. Or at least someone who can deliver the Premiership and the Champions League by September (and in exciting fashion). The grass always seem to be greener on the other side â€“ or rather in the other sides â€“ our players deliver the Premiership and the Champions League and fans deliver abuse. Where is the loyalty in that? </p>
<p>If you have called Ryan Giggs rubbish just because he isnâ€™t as fast as he was in 1996, if you have called Saha lazy, or Carrick useless, or questioned the most winning manager of all times just because he doesnâ€™t swap his whole Champion-team for Kaka â€“ then you shold not speak about loyalty. Then you should shut up until you have something useful to say.  </p>
<p>And furthermore â€“ if you want these great players as seen on the telly &#8211; great players from great football nations with great football clubs â€“ do not expect them to have a secret dream about playing for United, to love the club as if it was their local club, and to show this love and loyalty at any time and with as much force and passion as humanly possible. </p>
<p>Because kids in other country, in other football cultures, may very well dream of something else than United and Manchester. And all though you can buy their skills, you cannot buy their dreams. The only thing you can hope for is to make an impression good enough to convince them they live in another dream, just as good.</p>
<p>And if you donâ€™t want this â€“ then donâ€™t expect to win everything all the time. It is as easy as that.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98724</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 00:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98724</guid>
		<description>are you having a laugh?
If the sun-baked portuguese pop-star does not want to wear the shirt...
then he can f*** off.
The End.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>are you having a laugh?<br />
If the sun-baked portuguese pop-star does not want to wear the shirt&#8230;<br />
then he can f*** off.<br />
The End.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahmed Bilal</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98704</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahmed Bilal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98704</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;itâ€™s the spineless and disloyal way he has handled it&lt;/em&gt;

Disloyal being the fact that he wanted to go? Or disloyal being the fact that he spoke to the press about it? 

I&#039;m not happy with him talking to the press that way - but I can accept it since at the end of the day, he is man enough to come back and play for the club without throwing a tantrum a la Gallas or Cole or Barry or dozens of other primadonas. 

If he had made a habit of speaking to the press like Adebayor or Drogba have, then I&#039;d have held it against him. Right now, he&#039;s given two interviews in which he talked about wanting to leave - one before the Euros and one after it to Ballague. In both interviews he&#039;s said that the final decision rested with United. In his third interview he&#039;s said that he&#039;ll commit to United for the future.

Contrast this with the cunt-like behavior you see with players always talking about how sad they are at a club and flip-flopping between wanting to stay and wanting to go. 

Step *back* and get some perspective. Or don&#039;t, up to you.

Spineless being the part where he one, admitted to wanting to go but still maintained that it was united&#039;s decision in the end and two, decided to stay on and give his 100% to United knowing that he&#039;s incurred the wrath of fans by wanting to leave in the first place?

It takes greater integrity to come back to the team and face the players / fans than it does to throw a strop and refuse to play for the club. It takes greater integrity to own up to what you want than it does to lie to the world while your agent desperately works for a deal.

I&#039;m not a fan of Jorge Mendes but in all this we heard nothing about him, and I&#039;m really happy he kept out of it. Ronaldo made a brave choice and when it didn&#039;t work out for him, he made another brave choice.

I don&#039;t like the thought that he wants to leave (although in his mind he&#039;s won everything there is to win with United, and he has a point there), but I can deal with that separately from what he&#039;s done, and so far he&#039;s done nothing to embarrass himself or the club.

Again, compare Ronaldo with wantaway players from other clubs and then decide. It wasn&#039;t smart to talk to the press but there&#039;s nothing spineless or disloyal about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>itâ€™s the spineless and disloyal way he has handled it</em></p>
<p>Disloyal being the fact that he wanted to go? Or disloyal being the fact that he spoke to the press about it? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not happy with him talking to the press that way &#8211; but I can accept it since at the end of the day, he is man enough to come back and play for the club without throwing a tantrum a la Gallas or Cole or Barry or dozens of other primadonas. </p>
<p>If he had made a habit of speaking to the press like Adebayor or Drogba have, then I&#8217;d have held it against him. Right now, he&#8217;s given two interviews in which he talked about wanting to leave &#8211; one before the Euros and one after it to Ballague. In both interviews he&#8217;s said that the final decision rested with United. In his third interview he&#8217;s said that he&#8217;ll commit to United for the future.</p>
<p>Contrast this with the cunt-like behavior you see with players always talking about how sad they are at a club and flip-flopping between wanting to stay and wanting to go. </p>
<p>Step *back* and get some perspective. Or don&#8217;t, up to you.</p>
<p>Spineless being the part where he one, admitted to wanting to go but still maintained that it was united&#8217;s decision in the end and two, decided to stay on and give his 100% to United knowing that he&#8217;s incurred the wrath of fans by wanting to leave in the first place?</p>
<p>It takes greater integrity to come back to the team and face the players / fans than it does to throw a strop and refuse to play for the club. It takes greater integrity to own up to what you want than it does to lie to the world while your agent desperately works for a deal.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a fan of Jorge Mendes but in all this we heard nothing about him, and I&#8217;m really happy he kept out of it. Ronaldo made a brave choice and when it didn&#8217;t work out for him, he made another brave choice.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like the thought that he wants to leave (although in his mind he&#8217;s won everything there is to win with United, and he has a point there), but I can deal with that separately from what he&#8217;s done, and so far he&#8217;s done nothing to embarrass himself or the club.</p>
<p>Again, compare Ronaldo with wantaway players from other clubs and then decide. It wasn&#8217;t smart to talk to the press but there&#8217;s nothing spineless or disloyal about it.</p>
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		<title>By: BD Condell</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98625</link>
		<dc:creator>BD Condell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 12:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98625</guid>
		<description>Ahmed, being rated as the best player in the world obviously ups the anti but it&#039;s not because he wants to leave, it&#039;s the spineless and disloyal way he has handled it. If he spoke privately to SAF and Utd senior management at the end of the season and/or issued the following statement:
&quot;I have had a fantastic time at Man Utd and appreciate all that the club have done for me. Last season was beyond my wildest dreams in what the club and, I personally, achieved and I have fulfilled some of my greatest ambitions. However, it has been a long held dream of mine to play for the club I idolised as a boy and having achieved great success at Utd, I feel the time is right to follow that dream and challenge myself in a new environment. I know this will disappoint a lot of people but I will always treasure my time at Man Utd and the  club will always have a special place in my heart, as will the wonderful players I had the privelage of playing with and the manager, who has been a constant support and like a father figure to me. Utd fans are the best in the world and the support they gave me and the team in my time here is something I will never forget. I need to follow my heart but I hope all the Man Utd fans realise that this is a very difficult decision and one I do not take lightly.
Whatever the future brings I wish nothing but success for this great club, this has been a special time in my life.&quot;  
But no, instead he issued a series of spineless, cryptic (but easily deciphered) comments that he wanted to leave without ever considering or paying homage to the people who made him great and gave him undying support.

It says everything you need to know about the man, and it&#039;s not pretty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahmed, being rated as the best player in the world obviously ups the anti but it&#8217;s not because he wants to leave, it&#8217;s the spineless and disloyal way he has handled it. If he spoke privately to SAF and Utd senior management at the end of the season and/or issued the following statement:<br />
&#8220;I have had a fantastic time at Man Utd and appreciate all that the club have done for me. Last season was beyond my wildest dreams in what the club and, I personally, achieved and I have fulfilled some of my greatest ambitions. However, it has been a long held dream of mine to play for the club I idolised as a boy and having achieved great success at Utd, I feel the time is right to follow that dream and challenge myself in a new environment. I know this will disappoint a lot of people but I will always treasure my time at Man Utd and the  club will always have a special place in my heart, as will the wonderful players I had the privelage of playing with and the manager, who has been a constant support and like a father figure to me. Utd fans are the best in the world and the support they gave me and the team in my time here is something I will never forget. I need to follow my heart but I hope all the Man Utd fans realise that this is a very difficult decision and one I do not take lightly.<br />
Whatever the future brings I wish nothing but success for this great club, this has been a special time in my life.&#8221;<br />
But no, instead he issued a series of spineless, cryptic (but easily deciphered) comments that he wanted to leave without ever considering or paying homage to the people who made him great and gave him undying support.</p>
<p>It says everything you need to know about the man, and it&#8217;s not pretty.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Huller</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98598</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Huller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98598</guid>
		<description>Because he wants to leave, nobody wants a player in their team who doesn&#039;t want to be there because you cannot rely on his loyalty. What if Man U and Real Madrid meet in the cup, will Ronaldo play the best football match he has ever played or will he be caught in two minds as to what to do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because he wants to leave, nobody wants a player in their team who doesn&#8217;t want to be there because you cannot rely on his loyalty. What if Man U and Real Madrid meet in the cup, will Ronaldo play the best football match he has ever played or will he be caught in two minds as to what to do?</p>
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		<title>By: Ahmed Bilal</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98586</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahmed Bilal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98586</guid>
		<description>Do we &#039;hate&#039; Ronaldo because he&#039;s more valuable to us or because he wants to leave?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do we &#8216;hate&#8217; Ronaldo because he&#8217;s more valuable to us or because he wants to leave?</p>
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		<title>By: David Green</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98559</link>
		<dc:creator>David Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98559</guid>
		<description>They accepted him back after the Rooney incident in the World Cup when all my Man Utd fan friends said they&#039;d never cheer him again. I don&#039;t see why they won&#039;t love him this season if he performs like he did before- fickleness works both ways!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They accepted him back after the Rooney incident in the World Cup when all my Man Utd fan friends said they&#8217;d never cheer him again. I don&#8217;t see why they won&#8217;t love him this season if he performs like he did before- fickleness works both ways!</p>
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		<title>By: BD Condell</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/soccerlens-fans-more-fickle-than-ronaldo/9107/comment-page-1/#comment-98552</link>
		<dc:creator>BD Condell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/?p=9107#comment-98552</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s get the Pique reference out of the way first. No comparison. Pique is a promising defender who has little short term prospect of getting regular 1st team footbal at Utd. He wants the opportunity to advance and so SAF amicably agreed to let him go. Absolutely no parallel to the CR situation.

Now let&#039;s get onto fickle fans, starting with a definition of fickle:
&quot;Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious&quot;
I would argue that fans are anything but fickle. Their undying affection is for their club. True fans, as we see repeditively on this blog, will defend their team at all costs and this loyalty is unwavering, certainly not subject to &#039;erratic changeableness&#039;. 

By extension, fans bestow that affection and loyalty on all those who throw their lot behind the club, none more so than on players. This has close parallels to many of life&#039;s close relationships and as in those other situations, trust, loyalty and respect are paramount.

If any of the stakeholders breach these fundamental values there are consequences, but the commitment to the club remains untouched. CR has violated all these fundamental values with his behaviour and many fans are, rightly, unforgiving.

The bit regarding the media does not hold weight, for me, in this instance. Yes, it was a media frenzy and full of hype but fans don&#039;t lack the intelligence to shake this out and see the reality. It comes down to the personal interviews with CR and what he DID and DIDN&#039;T say. It&#039;s beyond question that he wanted (wants) to leave and while he may be entitled to that, the response of many true fans is: &quot; fair enough son, piss-off....next!&quot;

Nobody is bigger than the club (bad cliche I know) but certainly not this arrogant, vain, egotistical brat.

Many Utd fans, even before this saga unfolded, had a problem with CR. Personally, I found it a unique phenomenon to have the most influential player at the club I have supported all my life also a player I could not warm to on a personal level.

While CR is now backtracking at a great rate the fact is he has potentially undermined Utd&#039;s season this year based on his actions. This would have applied whether he stayed or went and clearly he is going sometime soon.

True fans are anything but fickle, the love of the club is paramount and never dies. Anyone who disrespects that deserves everything they get.

The sooner I see the back of him the better. Break the trust and there&#039;s no way back!

As for: &#039;Soccerlens owner Ahmed Bilal went so far as to call them a â€œsenseless, directionless mob who enjoy being manipulated by the media.â€&#039;
Isn&#039;t Ahmed the media himself? I feel this article is trying to manipulate my view but I&#039;m not to be swayed!

And finally, regarding the reference to all the other acrimonious transfer sagas that have unfolded recently, well all of the above applies to those players and they deserve the same consequences.

On a lighter note, is this piece Mr Bilal interviewing himself?
Worrying if that is the case!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s get the Pique reference out of the way first. No comparison. Pique is a promising defender who has little short term prospect of getting regular 1st team footbal at Utd. He wants the opportunity to advance and so SAF amicably agreed to let him go. Absolutely no parallel to the CR situation.</p>
<p>Now let&#8217;s get onto fickle fans, starting with a definition of fickle:<br />
&#8220;Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious&#8221;<br />
I would argue that fans are anything but fickle. Their undying affection is for their club. True fans, as we see repeditively on this blog, will defend their team at all costs and this loyalty is unwavering, certainly not subject to &#8216;erratic changeableness&#8217;. </p>
<p>By extension, fans bestow that affection and loyalty on all those who throw their lot behind the club, none more so than on players. This has close parallels to many of life&#8217;s close relationships and as in those other situations, trust, loyalty and respect are paramount.</p>
<p>If any of the stakeholders breach these fundamental values there are consequences, but the commitment to the club remains untouched. CR has violated all these fundamental values with his behaviour and many fans are, rightly, unforgiving.</p>
<p>The bit regarding the media does not hold weight, for me, in this instance. Yes, it was a media frenzy and full of hype but fans don&#8217;t lack the intelligence to shake this out and see the reality. It comes down to the personal interviews with CR and what he DID and DIDN&#8217;T say. It&#8217;s beyond question that he wanted (wants) to leave and while he may be entitled to that, the response of many true fans is: &#8221; fair enough son, piss-off&#8230;.next!&#8221;</p>
<p>Nobody is bigger than the club (bad cliche I know) but certainly not this arrogant, vain, egotistical brat.</p>
<p>Many Utd fans, even before this saga unfolded, had a problem with CR. Personally, I found it a unique phenomenon to have the most influential player at the club I have supported all my life also a player I could not warm to on a personal level.</p>
<p>While CR is now backtracking at a great rate the fact is he has potentially undermined Utd&#8217;s season this year based on his actions. This would have applied whether he stayed or went and clearly he is going sometime soon.</p>
<p>True fans are anything but fickle, the love of the club is paramount and never dies. Anyone who disrespects that deserves everything they get.</p>
<p>The sooner I see the back of him the better. Break the trust and there&#8217;s no way back!</p>
<p>As for: &#8216;Soccerlens owner Ahmed Bilal went so far as to call them a â€œsenseless, directionless mob who enjoy being manipulated by the media.â€&#8217;<br />
Isn&#8217;t Ahmed the media himself? I feel this article is trying to manipulate my view but I&#8217;m not to be swayed!</p>
<p>And finally, regarding the reference to all the other acrimonious transfer sagas that have unfolded recently, well all of the above applies to those players and they deserve the same consequences.</p>
<p>On a lighter note, is this piece Mr Bilal interviewing himself?<br />
Worrying if that is the case!!!!</p>
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