Steering clear of most of your remarks, let me just ask: if it’s all about the money, why does Man U offer training for girls under 16? Why end training just when the best become eligible to play for club and country? Wouldn’t having Man U women play in the Olympics, or play on a winning FIFA world cup team, or bring in a UEFA trophy help sell even more shirts – and broaden the fan base for the men’s team?

And, again, regarding equality: girls have the right to dream of playing for the country, for a club, of making the sport their life if they are good enough to do so. This isn’t to say that Man U is the best organization to give them that chance. Just that women have that right – to aim high.

People used to think women’s tennis wouldn’t make anybody money, that nobody would care about it – now women’s tennis frequently draws higher television audiences, and sells more tickets than men’s tennis. That’s why the controversy over prize inequity came up. If it’s all about the money (and not about how hard you work, or how many games you play), then shouldn’t they be paid more?

For the story on tennis, pay, and inequity see Paul Newman’s June 2006 article for The Independent: http://sport.independent.co.uk/tennis/article1095772.ece

And, as I said above, my point re: the charge – I can *understand why* someone might do so, out of desperation, confusion, and anger. Of course I also feel strongly that it is wrong to knowingly make a false accusation.

Sort of like how one might *understand why* Zidane administered his “coup de boule”, and still know that it was very much a red card foul.

What next? If a guy doesn’t call after a 1-night stand, is it OK to make a claim of rape then? What about if he’s not a good sh@g?

I think this girl’s boyfriend, the one who reported the fake rape (if that’s who did it) should be made to face the same sentance in jail that someone who genuinly raped would face. After all, when you make a bogus claim like this, you are putting some other person at risk of going to jail for all those years, so all people making claims of rape that turn out to be false, should spend this amount of time in jail.

To say that you would like such a guy as a friend is disgusting. My mother was raped and I was the result, your words fill me with revulsion.

Oh, and even without that line, the article was really really poor. It was obvious right from the off that the article was written by a woman – not because it was poor, but because it was adhering to the notion of the world being unfair to women, that all things should be equal when clearly there are differences in circumstances. I suppose you think Women tennis players should get equal pay in your eyes too? Even though they play for less time and sell less tickets?

Should Man United also provide football schools for disabled children? No disabled child will get into the team, therefore cannot be an asset to the business. This is purely on ability – of course, someone with a minor disability could make it, and I hope they do. Girls are forbidden by LAW to play in the same team as boys, so there is even less reason to train them.

If you want to rant about inequality, rant about the fact that my 5-a-side team was not allowed to join a league because there was a girl in our team – forbidden by law. We’re trying to start our own “Private League” in which case girls can play in the same team as boys. (we are all adults by the way).

With regards to your comments about Duke University:

“At the very least, those young men managed to transform bad judgement (in throwing a wild party and hiring strippers, etc.) into an intensely abusive and creepy display of entitlement.”

“Duke, as far from perfect as it is, is not an unreflective embodiment of patriarchy in and of itself – Duke has as many women students as men, anti-discrimination policies in hiring, and was recently led by a woman president. Racism and sexism thrive within its walls, but the extreme versions of those attitudes manifested by players on that team do not represent the institution’s public face, or even its present mission.”

What you failed to note was the extreme attitudes and sense of entitlement manifested by over 88 Duke University professors who signed a petition condemning the three men before all the facts were ever presented. Duke, like most elite American institutions of “higher learning,” have become thought indoctrination camps. Students are taught what to think. Not how to think independently.

For another perspective on the Duke situation, here is a someone who followed it extensively from the beginning to the end: Professor William Anderson of Frostburg State University in Maryland.

“Afterward 88 members of the Duke faculty, representing 13 departments, ran an advertisement condemning players and calling for them to confess…

To put it another way, they wanted confessions without proof of guilt. I suspect that many, if not all, of the signers of the advertisement say they are against the war in Iraq and are abhorred by the allegations of torture committed by U.S. interrogators to gain information from captured “insurgents.” However, in seeing how they reacted to the charges against the lacrosse players, I also believe that they would have supported the use of torture or any means necessary to gain “confessions” from these young men.”

http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson131.html

Also, I see the authors points and agree with them individually, but dislike the connection between potentially false rape claims and women’s soccer/football in Manchester. I don’t think the two really are connected that heavily – outside of the fact that its a “boys game” when looking at male dominated sports and that the feelings of not caring about women can be tied to a lack of sporting programs and a lack of respect for women, generally. While I don’t agree or like that fact, when players with celebrity and fame and money decide to throw a party and invite women (who choose to go be eye candy, essentially, but then things get out of hand), I fail to see how that relates to Man U canceling their women’s program, outside of what was stated earlier. I imagine economics and logistics played an important role in that decision – and yes the argument can go on, that people don’t watch women’s sports be/c they discriminate against women, but to draw that all back to this party is a little far fetched. I think this could happen with any of the clubs in the premier league lately.

That doesn’t mean that I agree with Man U’s choices, tho, in either arena. The party was gross, and I dislike the double standards, and some of the fans’ responses to the party have been disappointing, reminding us of how the majority feel about rape and how to define it.

On another note, perhaps part of Man U’s muted response has to do with the circus that was the Duke la crosse scandal, and they are taking a cue from that?

Good article tho, enjoyed reading it!

“As scandalous as it is to admit, I can understand why someone might make a false rape accusation. Most of the people attending that party have little opportunity to consider what feels exploitative, abusive, disempowering and why – and what avenues are available to them to protest and resist the behavior, and the attitudes that behavior manifests. What avenue is there really for anyone at a party like that to complain? To register their sense of outrage? Someone had a right to protest – and why not one of the women’s boyfriends? Frankly, that’s the kind of man I wouldn’t mind having as a friend.”

To excuse a false claim as some sort of misguided protest is irresponsible and does an injustice to real rape victims. Not only does it make people less likely to believe a real victim, but a rape claim will stick with the accused forever, even if proven false.

I don’t say in my post what I think regarding whether or not a rape happened. My aim was to ask: Is that “yes” which makes it not rape really all that matters? I mean, should one’s main concern be that one’s lover not feel raped? I know guys say that in forums like this, but I don’t believe for a minute that they would say such a thing to their girlfriends, sisters, or mothers!

Most of us aim to conduct ourselves by higher standards than those offered by criminal law. And, for the record: I do not support the filing of false accusation – my point was rhetorical.

My real point – the one that is actually about football – is that the decision to cut the Man U women’s team is on a continuum with the decision to throw that party and behave in that way – I would shift the blame, then, from the players to the organization itself.

So – yes, I am moralizing: I think Man U was dead wrong to cut the women’s team!

BTW: Where is the money from that fine going? I know it’s to a charity – but wouldn’t it be great if it were to fund a Man U women’s team? They’d be the richest by far in the country, and be at the top of the tables in a heartbeat!

You are responsible for your own actions, those women are too. If no one forced them to do anything, and they dont seem to have a problem, then its no ones business.

You say people at the party “have little opportunity to consider what feels exploitative, abusive, disempowering and why” – how would you know that? how do you know their definition of “exploitative, abusive or disempowering” is not different from yours? Thats the kind of man you would like as a friend, but you wouldnt be at one of these parties would you?

Your argument reeks of moralism and preachiness. If nobody was forced to do anything, no wrong was done, and its none of your business, or mine for that matter, what goes on where behind who’s closed doors.