Comments on: My cup runneth over: how to save the sanctity of the silverware

By: Hugo

Hugo — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:53:31 +0000

I’m with Gary, I’d watch Manchester United take on Cluj for the sake of cup romance. Although, I wonder if the logistics can accomodate a REAL champions only competition as UEFA has 53 leagues it governs, do we give 53 automatic spots? then what of the cup winners/second placed/third placed teams? Do we keep the co-efficient or get rid of it entirely? I actually like the group stage in the CL because it allows for smaller teams to have 3 guarenteed home fixtures, which brings in more revenue, which allows them to bring in better quality players, which improves their league, so maybe we make everyone qualify for the group stages?
I like the idea of taking away the 4th spot qualification and giving it to the winner of the FA cup/copa del rey/coppa Italia, because hell, the competitions used to be about pride, now it’s about incentive. Would you fight tooth and nail for a cup that rewarded you with less than where you finish in the league?
You know what else needs some shine? The club world cup, I grew up in Asia, so it was rather important, entering the CWC meant playing the best European and South American team. I can see the glaring flaw in that it is based in Japan and always takes place there, so maybe moving it annually, but I don’t see it really taking hold in Europe. The other problem being that it’s 2 weeks long, it feels more like an exhibition tournament than a legitimate competition, this though is a rather large point of contention between my friends and I, should we extend and expand the tournament at the cost of imposing on the already taxing fixture lists of clubs participating on multiple fronts whose key players also turn out for their national team every so often?
Thoughts?

By: Daniel Chung

Daniel Chung — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:56:00 +0000

@Rich (11)
The article isn’t so much about the FA Cup being the premier cup competition in the world (although I challenge you to find another club cup competition that boasts the history, longevity and legacy that the FA Cup has). It really has to do with how its value has really eroded in the modern game vis-a-vis the Champions’ League and of course the Premiership. So let’s not bother comparing it to the World Cup or the Euros b/c that’s really not the point of this article. Rather, how can a cup that held so much value to supporters up to the 80s and even the early 1990s have its value restored to those days? When Wimbeldon won it in 1988 I’m sure all their fans cherished that win as if they had won the league… yet the cup today has sadly lost that romance for the big clubs who see it more as a notch on their laundry list of titles (although I wonder how Cardiff City would have responded by beating Portsmouth last season). That’s really the point. I hope that the glory of the FA Cup can return… and my proposal (not that anyone in the FA or UEFA is listening) might be a step in that direction.

By: Rich

Rich — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:07:24 +0000

“The worlds greatest” knockout competition? The FA cup is no more important than the Copa Del Rey or the Coppa Italia. It’s very clear that the most important tournaments are the World Cup, Euros, Copa America and than Champions league. The FA cup isn’t even on the radar.

By: BD Condell

BD Condell — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 00:10:47 +0000

The FA Cup is probably finding the same level as the Cup competitions in other countries and why should it be something different?

The CL needs a name change but if you go with a model that lets less teams in from the ‘big’ countries you’ll dilute the quality. Let’s face it, the 8 or 9 best teams in Europe are from the 3 big leagues.

That said, you do get the situations where teams are only competing for the CL and not in contention for their national league (Liverpool and AC Milan in recent years), which gives an unfair advantage at the bsuiness end of the competition. However, I don’t see any way to solve that one.

By: Gary Andrews

Gary Andrews — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:06:05 +0000

@Madridista I suspect I may well be alone in this, but I’d happily watch Manchester United v Cluj if it was a knockout game. This may, in part, be down to my football geekery, but also in part my the part of me that has a yearning for cup romance. It’s one of those ties where, if you’re not a Man Utd fan (and, I stress, I’m not an ABU) part of you is hoping for an underdog performance.

@Tom (7) Yes, that’s a fair point. A club does has to prioritise. However, I reckon Bolton would have still have been ok if they’d fielded a full-strength team in that tie (but we’re probably getting into ‘what ifs’ here). I’d not (shamefully) done the maths. 288 games. Jesus. That’s too many, even for me. Hence, why I favour a straight knockout comp for the UEFA Cup. Less games, more fun.

@Daniel (8) Yes, absolutely. You have 100% agreement from me on that.

By: Daniel Chung

Daniel Chung — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:57:52 +0000

Why not give the winners of the FA Cup the final Champions’ League spot instead of giving the 4th place team that spot and then watch everyone field their strongest teams to win this competition. Mind you it gets somewhat complicated if the FA Cup final is contested by clubs already occupying the 1st and 2nd spots in the league but in that scenario then you could give the 4th place team the final Champions’ League position. I think this would revamp the worth of a domestic cup in all the UEFA countries. Let’s not kid ourselves. We live in a very Champions’ League-centric era and if that’s what restores the value of the FA Cup, I’d be all for it.

By: Tom Maginn

Tom Maginn — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:42:08 +0000

I don’t think there are huge problems with the Champions League, or the FA Cup. They both work well enough. Obviously the FA Cup is always going to be an afterthought to the big teams, but that is the way it’s always going to be unless you uninvent the idea of European competition.

The Uefa Cup however, is mental. Granted, the Europa League looks a slightly better option than the old format of 5 team groups with 3 teams going through and teams playing each other once.

But still, if my maths is on the ball, the new format will involve a group stage spanning 288 games over many months, and at the end there is only 16 less teams in it. What a waste of time.

The problem about weakened teams in the UEFA Cup is not one I buy into though. It’s not so much about not valuing the Cup as it is having higher priorities. If a club has earnt the right to play in the Premierleague and the Uefa Cup, and feels it can only compete 100% in one, why shouldn’t they be allowed to choose?

In any event weakened teams are only ever an issue if a side loses. Bolton became the first English side ever to win in Belgrade, drew in Munich and beat Madrid over two legs, all with largely a reserve line-up and no-one batted an eye-lid. The only negative reaction came with the defeat in Lisbon.

By: Madridista

Madridista — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:00:36 +0000

I won’t say it reeks of hateration.

I’ve made this point elsewhere, though. Fact is – think about it. If we don’t have the big names that finish third and fourth in the big leagues, you’re not going to get Inter vs Man Utd or Real Madrid vs Liverpool (ugh ) in the Round of 16. You’re much more likely to get them in the semis or finals, because either #1 they seed the teams to prevent the big teams knocking each other out early, or #2 they *don’t* seed the teams, leave it to luck, and end up with, say, Inter vs Man Utd/Anorthosis vs Cluj games in the Round of 16, and then Man Utd vs Cluj in the later knockout stages, which – let’s face it – no one really wants to watch. Sure, it’d draw more talent to the second- and third- tier leagues, but it would open a huge can of worms financially. It might be good for football in the long run but if it’s to be done at all it has to be done slowly.

By: Gary

Gary — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:54:39 +0000

DJ (I’m guessing you’re a Gooner), I used Arsenal as an example because they were handy and had finished a long way off the pace this season. If it makes you a happier North Londoner I could write “it seems somewhat perverse that, say, Arsenal or Liverpool…”

That would be just as valid to the point being made. Essentially, this isn’t a pop at any club, rather the format of the Champions League, and that Champions only should get automatic entry. Which does include, this season, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. And in previous seasons would have included Manchester United in place of Arsenal or Chelsea. Or even Blackburn Rovers. Savvy?

It has nothing to do with the club (who finishes where is irrelevant to the argument) and everything to do with the competition.

By: Ahmed Bilal

Ahmed Bilal — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:04:43 +0000

@erwf – how to make existing cup competitions more interesting. didn’t you pay attention in class? are you still looking at gemma atkinson? wake up and stop dribbling