According to the Manchester Evening News, Manchester United are the favorites to sign Karim Benzema.
Call it simple process of elimination more than breaking news, but here goes. Real Madrid, the club that the Lyon star has been a fan of since childhood, would appear to be out of the race for the foreseeable future for after the bargain signing of Klaas-Jan Huntelaar.
After Real Madrid, the likes of AC Milan and Manchester United have been heavily mentioned. AC Milan aren’t in financial straits by any means, but it’s hard to see them forking out the kind of fee. that Benzema would likely command.
So, that leaves United at the forefront, if they so choose to be. Benzema’s rated at £40m, and therein lies the question of whether or not United would actually fork out that much money for him right now? Lyon might sell for a little less than that, but if he keeps on scoring like he is, it won’t be for much less, and might be for more.
Any expensive move for another striker would of course depend on what happens with Carlos Tevez, who made quite the argument for his long-term United future with his outstanding four-goal performance in last week’s Carling Cup win over Blackburn.
Should United pursue Benzema? Do you think he’d play regularly enough to justify the large fee?
were gonna get karim benzema but arsenal wont get him bcoz wemgers too stitch wid his money and he only buys shit and young players but he dont buy good and talented playerz
Why the hell would Manchester United need another striker when Tevez who got 4 goals in a game isn’t even playing.
Manchester should not sign Benzema as long as they continue to play with a two-man front, which isn’t very intelligent in the first place. If they played a three-man front, they’d get a lot more bang for their buck, paying out 30m for Berbatov, who currently sees only about half playing time with Tevez.
It’s really pretty retarded that they’d rather keep Park on the flank rather than put an extra striker up front, especially with the hard-working Rooney and Tevez potentially filling the vacated winger roles from the front, split by goal-poaching Berbatov up front.
Additionally, Ronaldo is given as much freedom as necessary on the pitch, so he doesn’t really play either wing exclusively. Add in the fact that he adds absolutely nothing to the defense, as well as contributing no ball-winning presence in the midfield, and not to mention the fact that he plays his best up the middle anyway, while Rooney provides more accurate crosses from the wing, he fits as an AMF, rather than a “winger” which I consider a retarded backwards position anyway.
So essentially that would give us a four-man striking presence up front, with Carrick as the CDM and potentially Giggs or Hargeaves as the CM, or even Anderson, which would fit even better if he could commit to ball-winning and shed some of the offensive aggression.
That all being said, a three-man front would necessitate the acquisition of an additional striker for depth off the bench along with Welbeck, so if it’s a direction that SAF wants to go, then it makes sense. Keeping only two up front, this makes no sense at all, and just clogs up the front line depth, with Welbeck on a meteoric rise to prominence within the organization, and too many stars to please. Not a good move.
Will D. I know thats ur opinion but i have to say your tactical views are seriously messed up. if you look back to last season we played poorly in almost several games in which Ronaldo played as an out and out striker. Rooney is a forward for Christs sake he is not an attacking midfielder.
the reason no one plays three strikers(apart from barca) is simple. that leaves you with three central midfielder’s an three strikers which means no width in midfield and so who provides that width? the full backs but if a team keeps the full backs pinned back you become a narrow team that cant stretch anyone so u need individual brilliance to unlock your opponents and not everyone can do that and even if they can,it wont be all the time so that leaves you in a Barcelona type of situation. take away messi n they r crap. or Chelsea(stop the full backs n u they ruined).
but most of all dont forget that fergies been around for 20 odd years n if someone has been in charge of MANCHESTER UNITED for that long then who the hell has the right to question his tactics n who he wants to by???? By all accounts definately not you!!!
First of all – you’d have to refer me to at least one game in particular where Ronaldo has EVER played striker, at least as a listed position, because I certainly can’t think of any.
Also, 3 men is plenty to provide width across the middle, provided you have athleticism at the midfield and, true, we are a little iffy besides Carrick in that department, so I guess we wouldn’t really have the midfield personnel without the acquisition of another ballwinner, or at least a true center midfielder under 32 (besides sa-hargeaves, although if he could get healthy and on form I’d jump back on the bandwagon, i admit).
Additionally, Rooney isn’t really a “forward”. He’s considered a SUPPORT STRIKER which is more like an ATTACKING MIDFIELDER than a forward. His skill set is far more diverse than one belonging to a “forward”. He takes our corners for Christ’s sake! He’s also an outstanding tackler, a determined ballwinner, and rarely finds himself directly in front of goal, with few exceptions, besides taking a fair amount of long-ranged shots, a specialty of his, as well as many other ATTACKING MIDFIELDERS. He is more a facilitator than a goal-poacher, more of a crosser than a finisher, more of a ballwinner than a counterattacker and, most importantly, possesses all the necessary skills to play several other positions on the field more affectively than most, among them AMF, wing forward, SS, or even a traditional wing slot, as he has played both at the club and international levels numerous times through the years.
Tevez is more of the same – the two are frighteningly similar. This fact is the cause of a lot of anguish for SAF, both in finding playing time for them both, and in how to utilize them both on the pitch at the same time, as they both fit intuitively into the same slot as per his preffered 4-4-2 formation. Fielding 3 strikers would solve this dilemma, as well as best utilize the talents of both, and provide Ronaldo even more freedom than he already has (that’s saying something) to roam the pitch on offense and make plays.
Next, Barca has had a decent amount of success, eh? Running 3 forwards? And what kind of width do they have at the midfield? Not a whole lot more than we have potentially on the squad right now. Also, they have no-one on the squad with the versatility up front of either Rooney or Tevez, and they are still successful, even losing what could potentially be more useful ballwinning presences on the flanks that we would employ fielding both Tevez and Rooney on Berbatov’s flanks. You could call it a 4-5-1 for all I care, because Rooney and Tevez have a lot more range vertically than anyone gives them credit for, and probably make more plays defensively than any other “forwards” in the world.
Lastly, SAF has had the most success when he’s been able to surround himself with the most talented players in the world. While I respect what he has done in the past, there is only so much a manager can do to improve his team’s performance in-game. Those tools available are virtually exclusively limited to the starting lineup (wherein consideration of each individual’s talents and how they might be best utilized is the primary concern – ie Rooney and Tevez would serve the team better as wing forwards, or even as attacking mids, since neither poaches goals and Berbatov is currently a necessary evil up front) and substitutions.
I’ll give him credit for developing his players, and buying the right players at the right times, but the current success of the team can only be attributed to him for that, and he has done excellently.
However, the standard 4-4-2 is literally plug-and-play at this point, with no real tough decisions to make regarding personnel day-today… besides Rooney/Tevez, who should absolutely both be on the pitch at the same time. It’s just a question of whether or not you believe we will score as frequently or as efficiently with or without Berbatov, and with the club-record 30m transfer fee, I think it’s clear that SAF thinks that we are better with him on the field. Don’t be surprised if he experiments with the three of them on the field together – it makes the most tactical sense at this point.
SAF to the red half of man.
1st of all last season was now we are in this season
and there is a big difference can’t compare
the team was happy ‘the main reason’
To-day we have all the players we had last year + berba Rafa
and the young ones improved too,still we are playing horrible
and we are not happy on the field there must be some fireworks we don’t know about yet”THAT IS THE PROBLEM’
Hope we get over it and get in Form and Shape
For the next game vs spurs it’s going yo be tough
will d shut up…u dont know what your talking about….when rooney was injured ronaldo played striker….
your tactical views are messed up…dont get reallity and fifa 09 caught up in your mind…
AZY, good comment… “Shut up… u dont know what your talking about…” Care to explain? You’ve given no superior tactical insight… All you’ve said is that I’m wrong… Enlighten me please…
Will D, if Ronaldo plays his best down the middle, how did he win the Ballon D’Or by playing down the wing? He is at his best when making runs and beating players. It stands to reason that down the middle he’d have more players on him from both sides, limiting his effectiveness. And how is a winger a “retarded backward position”? Some of the best players in the world flourish down the wing – Messi, Ribery and Ronaldo just to name a few.
Also in your first comment you mentioned a sort of 4-1-1-3 with Ronaldo in a free role. This will put far too much pressure on the fullbacks, as they’ll have to cope with the opposing wingers/wide midfielders, as well as a possible threat from atacking fullbacks. And you want Rooney and Tevez to play in a role you described as “AMF”, then went on to say they would play a wide role, effectively as wingers, a position which in your opinion is “retarded” & ” backward”…please explain. Even if you were to do that, it would limit their effectiveness and you wouldn’t be getting their best out of them. After all, they were also expensive players, just like Berbatov. SAF said at the start of the year that he has hampered Rooney’s progress by playing him in such positions, and I would have to say that he’s a better judge of a player than you.
And if I’ve read it wrong and you don’t want them to play wide, then its just going to narrow down the team. Any team will be able to just play the ball around a stretched midfield. Furthermore, opponent fullbacks wont have to worry about wingers, and so will have more freedom to attack. If that happened you’d see the value in wingers. Your proposed formation and tactics will diminish the value of the midfield, and destroy any chance of versatility it has. The only attacking option will be down the middle, and once opponents plug that, the team will be sunk, save for free role Ronaldo, who hasn’t really done a whole lot this season (compared to last season). Also, it would give opponents more attacking options.
As for 4-4-2 being “plug and play”, I agree, it is a pretty stock formation. However, it is also one of the most versatile formations you’ll find, and given the current squad of Man U players, a versatile formation is needed to accomodate for Berbatov’s poaching, Ronaldo’s creativeness and Ronney & Tevez’s passing game, as well as the other players tendencies. Of course, the formation depends on the players a club has, and your proposed formation, although it will allow opportunity for Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov to forge an on-field understanding, it will limit opportunities for the range of midfielders available. Where would Nani fit in, for example, and as for Anderson playing a ball-winning role, he was bought to be a creative midfielder, and it’s his game to be a creative midfielder. If you make him play the role you suggest, it will be possibly OK for the here and now, but in a few years, SAF will be making his public apology for hampering Anderson’s progress as a player. He can be world class if he progresses, but a player can only be their best if they play their natural game. Too many prospective great players have been ruined by coaches who stubbornly persist with a formation wrong for their players. The formation should be dictated by the players available and their style of play. So again, Man U need a versatile formation, and 4-4-2 is probably the most versatile. It covers all bases defensively, as well as providing several options going forward. The only possible drawback is a lack of players attacking, but with the attacking style of most of their players I’m sure that will be offset.
Dan, I completely agree with just about everything you’ve said, but you clearly haven’t read my comments very closely. I’ll say here that this is a particularly long one, so if you don’t want to read on, that’s fine. To summarize – Ronaldo plays like an attacking midfielder more than a “winger”, for which the definition is quite convoluted, thus being an unintelligible positional reference. Rooney and Tevez play more like “wingers”, in that they favor the wings in the attack. However, since they are forwards, they are best utilized then as WING FORWARDS, for which a center forward is necessary. Thus, 4-2-1-3 (not 4-1-1-3… that doesn’t add up to 10 now, does it? probably just a typo…) makes the most tactical sense with the personnel available.
I did not suggest that Ronaldo play up the middle – rather, I suggested that he play BOTH wings as he so chooses simultaneously (not in two places at once of course, but moving from wing to wing with the ball, as he already does frequently). The only way tactically to allow for this is to play him in an AMF role, which Ronaldo would undoubtedly (and correctly) take as an offering of additional attacking freedom, and regain the form from last year that saw him utilizing both wings, with Park (the usual opposite-wing accompaniment) taking a backseat offensively, and staying in the midfield third primarily to regain possession in the even that it was lost. Ronaldo already played what pretty much amounted to an AMF role, despite lining up wide at the opening kick. “AMF” doesn’t refer to specifically a central attacking player, but rather one granted an attacking level of sorts all his own, allowing for vastly increased offensive responsibilities (which inarguably our best player ought to have), and an increased tendency towards creative aggression in the attack. Restricting him simply to a “winger” limits his creativity greatly, as he is not the type of player to lead the attack (or counterattack) or “beat” players in the sense that he blows past them. Most of his technique (at the times when he “beats” defenders) is utilized to find the center of the pitch, where he feels comfortable testing the keeper from range, which is something the squad has been lacking of late.
Additionally, I did not suggest that either Rooney or Tevez play a midfield role. I said that despite lining up as forwards and being listed at those positions, they are excessively versatile for such a focused attacking role, and thus even when their primary duties lie in scoring goals, they more frequently elect to facilitate the attack, and create chances for others. Not that they lack the ability themselves, but they lack the aggressive, selfish (in a good way) goal-poaching mentality that Berbatov possesses (which is the precise reason SAF acquired him in the first place, to add depth and versatility to the front line). For this reason, they frequently find themselves playing wide in spite of themselves (Tevez has combated his facilitating tendencies of late, showing aggression that it was not clear previously he possessed, and for this reason he may be more interchangeable with Berbatov from a goal-poaching standpoint than before). Rooney takes our corner kicks, despite the fact that he is a forward. This should tell you that SAF shares my exact tactical impression of Rooney – he delivers excellent crosses because he values that part of his game and enjoys participating in the offense and facilitating goal-scoring opportunities for his teammates nearly as much as scoring himself. Both he and Tevez, then, playing as they do, combined with outstanding athleticism each and more than adequate straight-line speed and counterattacking ability, provide the absolute portrait of wing-forwards (not attacking midfielders, wing forwards – there is a very distinct difference). Playing ON THE WINGS does not necessarily denote a WINGER. Rather, it shows, particularly in the attacking third, that the manager believes that the particular player’s talents are best utilized away from the middle, away from the goal, and in more of a supporting role.
This is why I believe that the “winger” position is both retarded and backwards. What is a “winger”? A midfielder who plays exclusively (or at least primarily) on the wing? Then how do you explain the fact that Ronaldo (a “winger”) uses his technique most often (and his ability to “beast” defenders, as you say) to find the middle of the pitch, rather than crossing positions in the corner? It is because he is an aggressive-minded player. Unlike Rooney, Ronaldo does not enjoy watching his teammates score nearly as much as he enjoys scoring himself. He is not the prototypical “team player” as no one will deny, while Rooney most certainly is. This wings are for chance-creation, as they position a player nearer the corner, from which the most fundamental of soccer actions is performed: the cross. Ronaldo does not like to cross, and therefore betrays the foreseeable intent of placing him on “the wing”. Rooney (and Tevez, for that matter) enjoys delivering crosses, thus making him a more suited candidate for “winger”. Unfortunately, Rooney is a forward, and is best utilized on the front line. More unfortunately still, although a striker, Rooney has a tendency to seek out the corner for the purpose of delivering crosses, despite his tactical responsibility to facilitate the attack IN THE MIDDLE, as per standard 4-4-2 tactics. This creates quite a vacuum in the middle, where Berbatov is often left alone (where he is anything but a facilitator in any sense of the word). This vacuum is most often filled by none other than Mr. Ronaldo… IN THE MIDDLE. Thus, Ronaldo has at least the mindset of an attacking midfielder, more specifically than simply a “winger”, which is a vague positional reference that takes all too many forms with different essentially similar 4-4-2 formations. Conversely, Rooney and Tevez favor the wings, and thus are most fully utilized as WING FORWARDS, for which a center forward is obviously required.
The argument for width I have, of course, already conceded. However, Carrick and Anderson (or Hargreaves if he returns to form) provide, I believe, adequate depth and defensive support from the central third. One of our main form issues this season has been lack of a ball-winning presence in the midfield, created by Park’s decline in playing time in favor of Nani and sometimes even Rafael, who are both equally aggressive wingers to Ronaldo. Thus, we have often found ourselves in precisely the situation a 4-3-3 (4-2-1-3) formation like the once I have proposed would create – “wingers” pushing forward excessively, thus leaving the two central midfielders (Of which Giggs is often one of, also pressing excessively) to deal with the incoming counterattack on their own. We would have weathered this defensive storm far better were Carrick healthy, as he provides the best defensive ball-winning presence or squad provides in the central third. Anderson has also shown that he is quite an apt ball-winner himself. As for the argument for Anderson’s creativity on the pitch – who cares? He has proven that he is more qualified to regain possession than to contribute to the attack, as our current 4-4-2 formation allows for what I believe to be excessive aggression from our midfield corps, and despite this Anderson has yet to score a goal for united in 66 total club appearances. If that’s not proof that he can’t score, I don’t know what is. I would much rather see Ronaldo playing in front of him – Ronnie’s the one you want being creative on the pitch, and I don’t think you will find anyone who would dispute that. Regardless, as long as Anderson continues to excel from a ball-winning standpoint, his athleticism and range combined with Carrick’s provide about as much range as two midfielders could possibly provide defensively. Utilizing them more defensively would highlight their talents more appropriately, and given their addition to the overall team defense, a segmented 6-man defense and 4-man offense, with as little overlap as possible, I truly believe would benefit the club. Think of those two as defensive midfielders – no need for an offensive contribution from them with the likes of Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez, and Ronaldo together up front.
Lastly, the point I was trying to make initially is one I doubt you would disagree with if you had taken the time to actually figure out what I was trying to say. Yes, these tactics I’m proposing may be a bit excessively creative – THAT’S THE POINT. The point is, the only way that bringing in Benzema would make any sense at all whatsoever would be the use of 3 strikers simultaneously. Using only 2 up front leaves Tevez and Welbeck providing virtually the best striker depth you could possibly have. Adding another high-profile striker would A) impede the development of our most promising organizational player (Welbeck, who has announced his presence in the premiership at age 17 with what could only be described as a bang), B) further cloud the depth chart of sorts at the position (further confusing and frustrating both Berbatov and Tevez – Rooney might even lose playing time despite his excellent recent form), C) Make SAF’s decisions regarding playing time, potential transfers, contracts, etc far more difficult, D) Probably piss Benzema off enough at virtually never playing that He would lose motivation, both to perform and to develop (and probably create Ronaldo-like transfer buzz, demanding trades this way and that), and last but certainly not least E) potentially waste money on a player that has not been long on the radar (at least as a legitimate, immediate impact player/star), not to mention setting a new record transfer fee on a player who would see very little playing time behind one of the most well-stocked striking squads in the world.
So that about sums it up. If you decided to read, good for you. If not, you should probably re-read my previous comments before arguing with me again, because I wouldn’t be surprised if ultimately we were on the same side. Cheers!
Will D I read parts of your comm.
about the wingers and strikers [pls.excuse my English]
Rooney is more an AMF than a winger maybe Tevez is a bit winged Berba is pure striker
anyway all this paper talk still doesn’t say wot is
wrong with our Team
We start the game in a fantastic way after 30′ we seem to start losing shape Ideas not to mention our passing
We have to be able to lure out opponents when a team def. like Sun.We get frustrated too quickly and keep repeating the same attacks until the opponents get the counter
Is it Carlos Quieroz we’re missing? are we disorganized?
Or has SAF gone soft
I completely agree SAF – I’m certainly not the one to figure it out, but I hate to see my team struggle as much as they have recently – something’s clearly wrong. And I’m not ruling out the possibility that moving to a 3-man front might give us a bit more credibility on the front line (not that we really need it, but maybe it’s just what we need?) and maybe that spark we’ve been really missing so far this year. I don’t know, hopefully we’re both wrong and SAF hasn’t lost it yet – maybe he’s got some more tricks up his sleeve. I’m anxious to see.
Will D, I reckon we are arguin the same thing to be fully honest…lol. Except I misunderstood. The formo I had was a typo, it was meant to be written 4-1-2-3. So to be clear, what your sayin is 4-2-1-3 lined up:
4: Rafael, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra
2: Carrick & Anderson
1: Ronaldo
3: Tevez Berba Rooney
Thats what you mean yeah?
Thats different altogether to what I thought (4-1-2-3). I mean, its one number, but the two holding players makes all the difference, as it allows fullbacks to get forward without as much worry about getting back. In fact I think that its odd more teams haven’t picked up on the idea of two holding players. Its proven that one works so two should theoretically be extremely formidable – for example I’ve thought for a while that Chelsea should use two holding players to accomodate for the fullbacks attacking play – sacrifice one from the attack, get two more etc…but I digress. Point is it’d work and wouldn’t open the team up too much (again, theoretically).
Yeah with Ronaldo in the AMF I suppose it could work, my only drawback would be that he would drift to the wings, which was my point – he likes the wings for obvious reasons, and so he may drift and thus cause the team to lose the link up between defense & atack which the AMF normally provides. As you said, he isn’t the player to lead the attack, which is the sort of role a traditional AMF plays. My worry would be that his drifting would have the effect of pulling Berbatov back to create, which as you’ve correctly pointed out, he doesn’t do. I mean, Rooney or Tevez could drop to create something, but that leaves you with the original sytem of two forwards.
On a sidenote, I don’t know for sure, but given last transfer window, I don’t reckon Ronaldo will be with United for too much longer. He won’t go in January so for the rest of the season it’ll be okay, but after that I suspect he might go to Real Madrid (and those geese Ramon Calderon and Sepp Blatter wont help at all – in fact, given the way Real’s season looks like turning out, it’ll be if possible worse than last time over the offseason tranfer window). Because of that I suppose you’d need a system which wouldn’t have to change a whole lot to accomodate his leaving. I suppose that the system which you’ve put forward would work as you’d just substitute the AMF position for a player to actually play the traditional AMF role once Ronaldo goes (assuming he does). Thoughts??
What you said about Tevez’s aggression of late, I reckon Tevez is sick of the bench and is venting his frustration into the aggression which we’ve seen – to be honest its exactly what he needs to do to regain his spot. Good to see hes not venting it into aggressive behaviour like Rooney – not to fault Rooney, but theres no gettin away from it – when hes frustrated he gets overly aggressive – that challenge against that bloke from Aalborg showed that.
And for the record I never said Rooney was a scorer like Tevez. I think his playing style speaks for itself here. I think that now you’ve explained what you were saying, we were again saying the same thing. Rooney has the abilities of a forward, not a striker (a distinct difference of provider vs scorer). Thats probably what you failed to make clear in your first comment describing Rooney as an AMF, which he isn’t. That brings me back to the sidenote, as neither Rooney or Tevez are AMF’s, that is, the link between the forwardline and the midfield – this again raises questions as to whether Ronaldo can play that role. And yeah I agree Rooney and Tevez both enjoy using the wings, but it just came across before as employing them there specifically, which restricts them. I see a winger as basically another word for a wide midfielder – that is, getting up and back. Wingers are mainly used to kind of cover every area of the pitch – a sort of player wall through each line which leads to every player having a specific role so as to cover all bases. In top teams such as Man U though, it’s unnecessary as the playing style is fluid and flexible so the wings will be used regardless. I thought you were implying that Tevez and Rooney play that sort of role – my bad.
As for Anderson’s creativity, you’ve inadvertantly solved it – see, what I meant wasn’t him scoring, I never said that, but I meant that in a ball-winning role he doesn’t get the chance to create as many plays and express himself as much while he is the sole ball-winner. However, if you’re getting at what I think you are, with essentially two holding players working in tandem (Anderson & Carrick), it would relieve the ball-winning role on one of them and thus allow them both to express themselves. An example is Claude Makalele, who over the course of his career was an excellent holding player, but didn’t really get much opportunity to express himself, and that resulted in him being undervalued so often. While he was holding aat Real Madrid for example, he would feed Zidane, who would then be the player to dictate the play, resulting in Makalele being forgotten often.
And finally, yeah I did notice your point was that it was a waste to buy Benzema unless a major tactical upheaval was on the cards, but it kinda got lost amid the tactic debates….lol. Anyway, it kinda seemed like you were criticising their current two striker setup regardless of whether Benzema comes. As far as that goes, I reckon if Tevez goes to Real Madrid, then Man U should go for him, but personally I doubt either would happen (this January at least) as neither player would be eligible for the Champion’s League, which I suspect they may just want to play in. I reckon that Benzema is the kind of halfway point of a Berbatov type player and the Rooney/Tevez type – not as good as Berba as our “finishing striker” model , and not as good as Rooney or Tevez at the “supportive forward” role. If Tevez goes, then that kind of player would be perfect as you have both types and a guy who can do both. But definitely not in January. Either way, it seems Benzema’s not needed as we’ve just redesigned the lineup for SAF anyway….lol