Lucky Liverpool?
After Liverpool’s amazing victory over AC Milan in the 2005 champions league final, may disgruntled fans of Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal accused Liverpool of being lucky and undeserving winners.
After all, how could England’s 4th best team achieve such a mean feat? Manchester United could only do it once despite their decade of dominance. Chelsea’s billions and Arsenal’s pretty football haven’t been good enough either.
It must be luck, right?
I saw an interesting and compelling argument on the rivals.net web site. It went something like this….
Post #1:
Luck? Barcelona?
Post #2:
Just like all the luck we had last time eh!!
The year is 2007 and 6 year old Mong fan Chalks is talking to his Dad.
SON “Dad, my mates in school told me that Liverpool won the European Cup for the 5th time in 2005 - are they right dad?”
DAD “Yes son, it’s true, but they were dead lucky son, all the way through the tournament”
SON “Why dad?”
DAD “Well in the group stages …”
SON “What dad, did they have a team from Azerbaijan, Israel, and Ireland in their group?”
DAD “Well no, they had Monaco, Deportivo la Coruna, and Olympiakos”
SON “Well they still sound like 3 easy teams to me dad”
DAD “Actually Monaco reached the final the year before, Olympiakos had won their league 7 times out of the previous 8 seasons, and Deportivo finished above the galacticos of Real Madrid in their league”.
SON “Jeez dad, that sounds like quite a difficult group then”.
DAD “yeh I suppose your right son, but they were still lucky - it took a mishit shot by Gerrard against Olympiakos to get through”.
SON “oh is that the goal were your hero Andy Gray goes berserk shouting “you beauty, you beauty, what a hit son, what a hit!!!!”
DAD “yes son it is”
SON “oh ok. Well what happened in the last 16 dad, who did they draw?”
DAD “Bayer Leverkusen”
SON “Bayer who?”
DAD “Exactly son, but they had beaten Real Madrid 3-0 at home, and won their group that included Dinamo Kiev and Roma too.”
SON “Bloody hell dad, they sound good”.
DAD “Yes, I suppose you’re right son”
SON “So did they win on away goals or something”
DAD “errrrr, no, they won both legs 3-1 each”
SON “Oh - well, who next then dad”
DAD “Juventus”
SON “How the f#*k did they get past them Dad?”
DAD “Well they did - they won 2-1 at home, and cruised to a 0-0 away draw without Juve having hardly any chances”.
SON “Were Juve s*#t at that time - had all their decent players gone or something?”
DAD “Well actually they still had players like Del Piero, Nedved, Ibrahimovic, Thuram, and Buffon in the side. And they won Serie A a few weeks later.”
SON “wow, they beat the Italian champions elect - which p**s easy team did they get in the semi then?”
DAD “Chelsea”
SON “Chelsea - for f#*ks sake - what a p!*s easy draw - they’ve won nothing, Everton have won more than them”.
DAD “Well that season they won the Premiership and League Cup but the Red s**te didn’t let them score in 186 minutes of football”
SON “Jesus Christ - so Liverpool beat the English Champions elect too”
DAD “Yes son, they bloody well did”.
SON “So after all that I suppose all the good teams had been knocked out”
DAD “Not quite son, AC Milan awaited them in the final”
SON “No way - aren’t they the 2nd most successful team in the competition’s history”.
DAD “Yes son they are”
SON “So were Liverpool lucky because Milan had all their good players out with injuries”
DAD “No - they had Shevchenko, Crespo, Maldini, Nesta, Cafu, Kaka, Stam, Dida, Gattuso, Pirlo, and Seedorf”.
SON “Your ‘avin a laff”
DAD “It gets worse son, Milan were cruising, 3-0 up at half-time”.
SON “What happened, did they have 3 men sent off in the second half - how did Liverpool get back into the game?”
DAD “No, Milan had no men sent off, the Red sh**e scored 3 goals in 6 minutes”
SON “Against the best defence in Europe”
DAD “Yes!!!, against the best defence in Europe”
SON “So what happened next - extra time?”
DAD “Yes son, and Dudek made the luckiest save ever to stop a Shevchenko shot from a yard”
SON “Why was it lucky dad - did it hit him on the arse, nose, shoulder or something”
DAD “No son, his hand”
SON “Well aren’t goalies meant to save shots with their hands”
DAD “Yeah, but that’s besides the point”
SON “Then what”
DAD “Penalties!”
SON “English teams are crap at penalties”
DAD “Not this f#*kin time they weren’t - they only missed one. And that’s how Liverpool became the luckiest team to win the European Cup”.
SON “But I bet when they brought the cup home there was hardly anyone to watch as all Liverpool fans live anywhere but Liverpool you say. How many was there, 5,000 or so?”
DAD “1 million people lined the streets”.
SON “So let’s get this straight dad - Liverpool had 3 good teams in their group, they then knocked out a team who had beaten Real Madrid 3-0, they then knocked out the future Serie A champions, then knocked out the future Premiership champions, before coming back from 3-0 down to beat the 2nd most successful club in Europe. And then the whole population of Liverpool came out to welcome them home!!!!”
DAD “That about sums it up son”
SON “Dad?”
DAD “Yes son”
SON “Can I have a Liverpool shirt for my birthday next week, and can you stop calling me Chalks - I’m Stevie from now on”
Do you still think that they were lucky?
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Even the players were saying we had help from above with all our success!
That’s because we never walk alone!
Hope we do it again this year…
it was luck, Im sorry but Liverpool were a fourth rate premiership club at the time, and still are, and some of your players being allowed to play with Scouse accents is a disgrace! think of the kids man, aye aye aye
Nice post. Chelsea fans will say that the ball never went in at Anfield
aRSESNE Obscene, Whats the matter lad? Is the poor little gooner still upset that Arsenal have NEVER won the CL and has absolutely no chance of winning it this year aswell?
Aaaahhh didums!
P.S Playing attractive football doesn’t make a team great. Winning games does.
Jamsy - I think you’re a bit thick mate! I dun support the gooners, I’ll let you keep guessing though! ijit!
and my teams beat you at Anfield this season you nonse! after you robbed Barca! THE REAL MIGHTY REDS! CHAMPIONS!
Aaaaaaahhhh DIDDUMS! typical scouse!
Lucky to have qualified for the UCL in the following year.
Howz that for luck?
ArseneObscene-didnt you beat us BEFORE we ‘Outplayed’Barca?
Think on eh!Just when is your luck going to run out at the moment? A Lucky undeserved draw against fulham, a dodgy game against Lille, A flukey smash and grab at Anfield (you definately ‘robbed’us) and a dodgy penalty at middlesborough.
Perif-ok mate, i have to give you that one. But dont you think that the Champions deserve a chance to defend the title?
Funny article makes the point with humor. As for the Arsenal fan 4th rate side look at your own team first. And Chelsea can count themselves lucky we got a goal and not a pen and red card.
Talking of luck this season Man U must of stolen our leprecon they have had some easy draws and luck with results.
“After all, how could England’s 4th best team achieve such a mean feat?” - England’s 5th best team, get it right. Liverpool FC werent even the best side in Liverpool the year they won the European Cup!
PS. I liked the story about the glory hunting kid. What point were you trying to prove? That glory hunters are good?
ArseneObscene, I’m not a Liverpool fan you thicko. I support a team that is far more superior in Europe then your team.
i don’t know why all these stuck up man u chelsea and arsenal supporters think it was luck,i mean they beat barcelona something that arsenal and chelsea struggle to do, and they came back from 3-0 down with sipirt and they sincerley deserved to win it so stop calling it ‘luck’
Thats a great post a classic!
It was luck. In football terms Liverpool were the worse team against Juve Chelsea and Milan over the legs, and Gerrard shouldnt have been on the pitch against Olympiakos. It wasn’t undeserved, but it was lucky. Its funny how the story seems to not actually analyse any of what happened in the games.
Mark, it wasn’t an Arsenal fan but a Man Utd fan who wrote the post that everyone’s slagging off.
Anyway, i’m an Arsenal fan & i say that Liverpool deserved to win. You cannot call coming back from 3-0 down luck, i’m sorry but that’s a singularly stupid argument. Its just the way Benitez plays. He’s the master of knock-out tournaments & the players really came through in style on that night. They never give up & that’s the basis of any good football team. I really admired the way Liverpool played the way they did. They reached the CL finals again this year so either they are blessed by the Gods (in which case every other team should just pack it in) or they deserved to reach that stage with the way they played. You cannot put results like these down to luck.
I don’t agree with the argument that even if you don’t qualify in the top 4, you should still be allowed to defend your title. That whole decision smacked of politics to me. A team has to be under pressure to be consistent in all competitions so i feel that Liverpool shouldn’t have been allowed to play in the 2005/06 CL season. Its the way the World Cup works, so why not UEFA? Its only fair.
Oh yeah! By the way i forgot to mention. Great post!
Not 4th best team in England , 5th at the time , behind Everton.
And yes it was luck. I don’t think diving and claiming a penalty is considered fair play , do you ? HAD Stevie G not dived and not given the penalty , which also was with luck scored ( he missed it , didn’t he ? but got in the rebound ) Milan would have won the match. So yes , I would say it was down to luck erm .. and some cheating. However , justice was done two years later.
Although it’s a good argument there is some problems. the teams that they played in the group stages are portrayed to be god-like. Monaco made the final the year before with Morientes scoring all there goals. Now he was playing for ‘Pool that year and Monaco didn’t score the goals. In the qualifying stages Deportivo were held by Shelbourne from Ireland,hardly Real Madrid, and Olympiacos arent great either. You also left out how Juve were champions of Italy because they were fixing matches. I don’t support Chelsea but the ball never went in it was just pressue from the players and the crowd that made the ref give it.
SON: Dad then surely they must be the best team in Europe then?
DAD: They could have been if only they did not finnish 4th in their own league that contain teams like Bolton,Reading,Shefield…
SON: How does that work then dad
DAD: Well you see son, they’re only good during cup games. They tried the same stunt again this year and actually got there arses whipped this time. I guess this time they walked alone. Besides, they got beaten by Manchester United, TWICE that year, and AGAIN, TWICE this year!!!
SON: I guess then they were lucky dad?
DAD: Yes son, unfortunately, their fans don’t know that.
Karl they finished 5th in their own league behind EVERTON and were given a handout by UEFA to get into the next tournament. I have to say your version is better than the post.
Thanks for the correction Liam.
Point is, can’t these people get it in their heads that it was down to luck?
I can remember that evening very well. That was the first time I ever sent a ‘good’ prayer for Liverpool (I still curse myself today). At half-time, I prayed…”…Please don’t let AC Milan humiliate them. They are completely outplayed and I think 3-0 is humiliating enough…its bad publicity for the Premier League…”. Then, the unthinkable happened. Lady luck shone prefarably on Liverpool and they got some ‘lucky’ breaks. This mainly because Milan came out thinking the game is won, and took their foot off the pedal. I suppose that’s what happens when you’re too arrogant against your opponents. In hindsight…Pity though.
I am still to meet a true Liverpool fan who did not feel the same during that half-time…
And, if that in itself does not say that even they did not expect the outcome, then I don’t know what ‘lucky’ means.
Liverpool never wins that final if the ref has balls and had called a reshoot on one of Milan’s penalties.
I don’t see how you can’t see Dudek 3 yards off his line before the ball is even struck.
That is the point I am trying to make… YES UNITED WERE LUCKY on both occasions. I have no problem admitting that.
There is something that luck has very little to do with… that is for the past 2-3 decades now, United have most consistently been the best performing team of ALL the English teams.
“P.S Playing attractive football doesn’t make a team great. Winning games does”
..oops i think not..great teams know to find a blend between the two..winning and entertaining..and considering the “shit hanging from a stick”football ‘pool and chelsea play..calling them great is stupid.
Liverpool werent lucky they deserved to get to the final again. Becauase they played well in the Champions League.
I hope they learned their lesson! Don’t put all your eggs in one basket! It did work the first time, and almost the second time, but if they don’t keep their eye on the league this year they’ll find their eggs in the UEFA cup basket next year!
Face the fact, Liverscum are not the team they used to be. They are a very lucky cup side and that is were it stops. Year after year I hear all the liverscum fans who are not from Liverscum anyway, we are going to win the premier ship this year and guess what, they dont even come close. They have been given a bit of money this year from Mr Gilletts post office account so no more excuses when you fail at the end of this year!
This season is definitely the moment of truth for benitez and Liverpool. Lets see how far they get in the Champions League, if they dare to mount a challenge for Prem?
I’m sure the scousers are sick of people calling them a cup team. I think the signings they have made suggest they want the league, but if by christmas Benitez is shitting out and saving his players for the champions league we’ll know it’s cos they just aren’t good enough!
but good luck to e’m i’d like to see them at least make a challenge. If not it will be a massive let down!!
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=124359729&MyToken=827f9015-b886-48cf-bbbe-dfac3d851a72
sorry bout the link, someone was on the computer and looked at the site, this article was opened so they posted it!
Look, I’m a big ‘Pool supporter, but of course they were lucky! If you look at the players they won that title with, it has to be among the least talented teams to ever win the competition. Djimi Traore was starting for them! That doesn’t mean, however, that it was undeserved. Stevie G carried the team on his back more than any other player I can think of, and they played with a determination and will they no other team did. The win was a combination of luck, will, and Stevie G playing out of his mind. I’m not ashamed to admit it, and it doesn’t make it anything less of an achievement.
Also, I’m an American, and I have to say this whole “You can’t be great if you don’t play attractive football” thing very interesting. It would be laughed off as a ridiculous argument in America. Sure, we like teams like the Suns better than the Pistons, but we still say results are what counts. I’m not saying the European arguement is ridiculous–I sure wish ‘Pool played a more entertaining brand of football, and I think it might even help them on the scoreboard, especially in the league–it’s just an interesting difference to note. Though I must admit I still lean heavily towards, you can play as beautiful as you like, but in the end, it’s the league table / scoreboard that counts.
Liverpool’s problem this season was playing their best CM on the right wing. Alonso was being pushed to the bench in favour of Mascherano towards the end of the season and their creativity suffered as a result. I don’t see it being much diferent this season with Alonso, Gerrard and Masch all competing for CM and they will have to start accomadating them like what Chelsea did with Ballack and they will as usual be out of the league race in October.
P.S. the Suns were cheated this year by San Antonio
Liam O’Kelly you dozzy twat, Chelsea has been in the semi finals for the last three years running and I think you will find this stage of the comp is a little later than October. But there again, you are only a Liverscum supporter so you can’t know that much about football. Wanker.
Little Blue
Can you read? I was criticising ‘Pool just using Chelsea as an example. Of course Chelsea aren’t going to be out of the league race by October, that is what will happen to ‘Pool. By the way it is the worst insult I have ever gotten to be called a ‘Pool fan so you just go and jump on the next bandwagon that flies by.
P.S. Chelsea wont be out by October but they wont win it either.
And also where the Fuck did I even talk about the CL you illiterate Knobmuncher
Chelsea didnt reach the Semis in 2006, Barcelona deservedly beat them
in the second round
Liam O’Kelly. I think we need to meet up so we can sort this little problem out once and for all. How about you bring a few mates then you can all say you have been munched by the cockney love muscle. Come on if you think your hard enough. By the way, tell your Mrs I will be around the same time as normal, its a pitty you can not find out what time that is as you could make sure you walk in on us to see me hanging out of her ass! Ha Ha.
lol Oh No! Hard man on board
Chavs, why do they think the answer when someone outsmarts them is violence. What’s wrong did I hit a soft spot or did you miss the last bandwagon and now are angry ’cause you’re stuck with Chelsea.
MDH
We should probably start running now before he knives us.
You bunch of ass holes, dont you think there is more to football than just talking about it. What the fock do you bunch of muppits do before a match and after. 90 minutes dont fill the whole day. But on the other hand, you are probably the type of ass wipes that sit in your arm chairs with your sky + remotes, acting total wankers in front of your mothers trying to have it large. Look at me mummy, I talk a good game. I would love to open you pair of faggots up!
Wait so there is more to football than talking about it? So what instead you beat someone up because they have a different opinion to you? How about you chill out Mr. “Cockney Love muscle,”……..what a dumbass.
Liverpool have to stop playing their luck. they need to start playing attractive attacking football for a full game and stop defending leads for 80 minutes of a game. I know as a gunner im slightly contradicting myself, but that worked 10-15 years ago. It won’t work next season, Rafa needs some new tactis not just new players!!!