Liverpool fan exposes media bias for Arsenal’s transfer record
Paul Tomkins has written an interesting article over at liferpoolfc.tv, in which he talks about tonight’s game at Anfield, the falsity of the notion that Liverpool are a 2-man team, and hypocrisy of the media in lauding Arsene Wenger’s transfer record while trashing that of Rafa Benitez.
Here are a few excerpts:
Arsenal are a young side. But Liverpool are also a fledgling team, and unlike Arsenal, the majority haven’t been part of the set-up for years. The 18-man squads involved in last Wednesday’s match had average ages of 25 (Arsenal) and 26 (Liverpool). By comparison with the other English teams involved, Manchester United’s was 27 and Chelsea’s 28. (Players’ ages correct to the last day of this season.) And of course, had Agger been fit to play instead of Hyypia, the average age of the Reds’ starting XI would come down by a full year.While Arsenal have a few youngsters who are regularly on the bench –– Walcott, 19, and Bendtner, 20 –– they are not this team of raw kids as which they are portrayed. Almumia is 31, Gallas 30, Rosicky 27, Hleb 27, Toure 26, Eduardo 25, while van Persie and Adebayor are 24, and Eboue is nearly 24. Senderos is now 23, and Clichy will be 23 in the summer. The one truly young gem they have is Cesc Fabregas, who is about to turn 21.
The key difference is that most of Liverpool’s younger players are new to England this year, and part of a newer project, and as such are lagging behind Arsenal’s younger players in terms of adaptation. You will always get the exceptions to the rule like Torres, who adjusted very quickly (although has still improved), but the majority take time. Incredibly, none of Arsenal’s starting XI arrived into English football after 2005, and nine were either at Arsenal (or Chelsea, in Gallas’s case) in 2004. No wonder they play with a lot of understanding, of English football and of each other.
Contrast that with Liverpool, where six had arrived since 2006, and four of those since the start of 2007, and you can see the relativeness newness of Benítez’s project. Arsenal had two subs who arrived in 2006, but otherwise they all pre-dated 2005. In other words, Wenger had collected nearly all of his squad before or during Benítez’s first year. Liverpool’s bench contained four players signed in the last nine months.
…
While Fabregas and Clichy are now top-class top-level players, you need to wait at least two or three years to judge Benítez’s youngest signings, like Hobbs, Insua, Pacheco, Bruna, Nemeth and the impressive Plessis, who mixes midfield destruction with a sweet left foot.
…
One of my main bugbears is how Arsene Wenger’s mistakes in the transfer market somehow get overlooked.
While, as with Benítez, he has unearthed a lot of great players, he’s also bought a fair few failures and disappointments too. Stepanovs, Jeffers, Wright (Richard), Boa Morte, Diawara, Cygan, Wreh, Grimandi, Chukwunyelu Obinna, Danilevicious, Luzhny, van Bronckhurst and Baptista (bar one game, at Anfield) –– to name just a few; in all, a mixture of substandard players and a couple of talented ones who failed to settle.
Meanwhile, Wiltord and Reyes were £10m+ players who hardly set the world alight. With Benítez, a few cheap flops like Nunez, Josemi and Paletta (a mere kid) get brought up as if they are par for the course. You could add those three to the fee of Morientes and still not get what Arsenal paid for either Wiltord or Reyes.
Hard to disagree with some of the points Tomkins makes about Arsenal’s and Liverpool’s transfers. What do you guys think - is he right or wrong?
Hat tip to Arvin for pointing me to the article in the first place.
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Discussion - 48 Responses
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Can we please compare money spent over the years? Arsenal’s team which plaed liverpool last saturday night cost approx 25 million. Torres cost 25 million.
Funny how Jermaine Pennant has been left off the Arsene Wenger substandard list.
Max : Walcott and Hleb alone cost 20 million plus and Adebayor cost between 7 and 10 so I think these are exactly the inconsistencies that Tompkins is talking about above.
Also in a recent interview when asked to clarify exactly how much Torres was bought for Benitez said 20 million and not the 26 some like to report.
Arsenal supporters always like to give the impression that all of Wengers signings were miserly free transfers picked up off the street and transformed into international superstars. Credit where credit is due theres no doubt Wenger has a way at developing young talent but he also has spent more money than Arsenal fans like to believe and as pointed out by Tompkins he has had some very dodgy purchases.
Torres cost £20 which included the price for garcia, rafa’s own words in an interview done recently with Guillaume Balague.
Tony in fairness to Pennant he was picked up for 2 million by Arsenal and sold a couple of seasons later at a profit so as substandard as he is Wenger still made money on him
The only bias in this article is evidently from the author!
Every manager makes good and bad buys, the reason why Wenger is special is because he has ‘created’ so many superstars rather than buying read-made ones (I won’t bother listing them all).
Interesting that most of ‘failures’ he listed were low cost squad fillers (cost less than a million to 2 millon) such as Boa Morte, Stepanovs, Grimandi(legend!), and Cygan.
There were a few big money signings that didnt work (Jeffers is the biggest failure imo), but like I said when you look at how many went right in relation it is quite impressive.
Finally some cold hard facts -
NET Spending by the PL Top 5 since Jan 1992:
Net Spend 1992/93 to 2007/2008 Seasons
Total Net Average Per Year
Chelsea £341,670,000 £22,778,000
Liverpool £178,810,000 £11,920,667
Newcastle United £142,221,000 £9,481,400
Manchester United £160,359,500 £10,690,633
Tottenham £116,877,500 £7,791,833
Arsenal £55,276,000 £3,685,067
Fergie V Benitez V Mourinho V Jol V Wenger V Newcastle Total Net Average per year
Net Spend 04/05 to 07/08 Season
Mourinho £162,930,000 £54,310,000
Benitez £87,670,000 £29,223,333
Fergie £79,170,000 £26,390,000
Newcastle United£51,850,000 £17,283,333
Jol £57,050,000 £19,016,667
Wenger £4,120,000 £1,373,333
One word: GENIUS!
Of course Wenger made money on him, like he did with Anelka. (23m I seem to recall)
Wenger’s ability to make money on players is not mentioned along in the article along with the fact that he runs his transfers within the financial restraint of the club and still keeps Arsenal where they are.
And I can’t think of any player that Arsene has made world class that has gone onto better things. They have all failed to impress without his guidance including the great Thierry Henry.
Tompkins, Wiltord can hardly be called sub standard, he scored plenty of impoortant goals for Arsenal & France including a key ones againast Man Utd to help us win the title. He only left because he wanted more money than we were prepared to pay. Reyes was an enigma who didn’t like the UK or its weather, Wenger can hardly be blamed for that & Baptista was only ever here on loan.
Yes he has had some flops as you listed (Pennant should be added) but where he excels is taking players from obscurity and turning them into world class performers, who had heard of Vieira, Petit, Anelka & Toure amongst others, before he signed them. Those four together cost lest than Pennant alone.
If you look at the league for money spent on players in the last five years. You will see that Arsenal are 18th and Liverpool are 2nd. Chelsea are 1st. You are even above Man U who are 3rd. So how you can come out and moan about Wenger being over praised for his ability spend money well is amazing. As for some of the players you mentioned. We never even bought Baptista. Boa Morte was bought for 500,000 pounds and is now a premiership regular. Van Bronckhurst went to Barca. Not bad for a useless flop. Wiltord was a good player for us and when he left went on to do really well with Lyon. Hardly another flop. Reyes was a good player and went to Real Madrid. I saw liverpool were linked with buying him last week too. As for the rest. With Jeffers and Wright your right, they were flops. But thats what happens when you buy english players just to please the moaning english media. As for Grimandi and Luzhny. They were good cheap players who each played for us for a few years and helped us win titles. Then as for the other four players. They cost hardly anything and ok they weren’t the greatest players ever, but four cheap flops in 11 years is not too bad. You can’t argue with Wengers record for buying and selling players simply can’t be beat. Just look at our league place for spending and where we are in the league now.
As an Arsenal supporter i realise how hard it is looking from the outside in, and relying totally on media reports from the likes of Mark Laweranson etc…so let me clear up a few points for you.
first Wiltord, won a Premier league title, plus also featured in the one and only team to go unbeaten for a full season, and on top of those 2-titles, he won 2-fa cups. So 4-trophies in 4-years - can’t actually think of to many players who have achieved any where near that success. Great player for us, as he came on from the bench and did a job - something that we are sorely missing now with 4-major players missing from our first team (Van Persie, Sagna, Rosicky and Eduardo.)
Reyes - Bought for £ 10.5 million (could have been £ 17 with top ups but didn’t stay long enough for those), sold for £ 8.5 to Athletico - Won:
FA Premier League 2003-04
FA Cup 2005
and was a UEFA Champions League runner-up 2005-06.
Not bad for an investment of £ 2million. He left because he wasn’t comfortable in England. It happens.
In eleven years you’ve pointed to a sizable number of players that have not made it, however, in comparison to Rafa the gaffa, you’ll see pro-rata that Arsene’s efficency over the same amount of years is second to none in getting right.
More, and i hate to admit it - Arsenal were always suffering from lack of money at highbury. Our tranfer kitty has always been that of the bottom five in the premier league. HOWEVER, that is all changed now. For the last year or two, our profits and turnovers have gone through the roof, plus we have a couple of billionaires (i know a man who knows a man) who are regulary campaigning Arsene to take their money for transfers. Expect some big big signings in summer or after. But before that - Rafa has been at Liverpool for a couple of years now, and has spent £ 151 million on players, taking in £ 71million on sales - he has cost Liverpool £ 80million for the trophies he has won.
Arsene has made Arsenal £ 22million in profit - after all the players in and players out. The only Club in top flight anywhere that can say that.
And as Max rightly points out - with a team made up for £ 25million, what do we have in return? - 3rd/close second/close top in the premier league, and the Quarter Finals in the Champions league (even with 4-major players out injured.)
Also, imagine Man Utd losing Ronaldo (Van Persie), Tevez (Eduardo), Giggs (Rosicky), Wes Brown (Sagna) - would they still be at the top of the league, or still in the Champions league?? - I think not. And that goes for any of other top 3-teams in any league Europe.
Gilberto and Lehmann are off in the Summer. Younger players like Vela coming in, our average age is going to drop again.
I know which manager i would rather have….
Rafa Benitez’s transfer history:
TRANSFERS IN:
Josemi Rey Malaga £2,000,000 26.07.2004
Antonio Nunez Real Madrid £1,500,000* 17.08.2004
Xabi Alonso Real Sociedad £10,700,000 20.08.2004
Luis Garcia Barcelona £6,000,000 20.08.2004
Mauricio Pellegrino Valencia Free 05.01.2005
Fernando Morientes Real Madrid £6,300,000 13.01.2005
Scott Carson Leeds United £1,000,000 21.01.2005
Josh Mimms Rotherham United £50,000 16.06.2005
Antonio Barragan Sevilla £240,000 04.07.2005
Boudewijn Zenden Free Transfer Free* 04.07.2005
Jose Reina Villareal £6,000,000 04.07.2005
Mohamed Sissoko Valencia £5,600,000 14.07.2005
Peter Crouch Southampton £7,000,000 20.07.2005
Godwin Antwi Real Zaragoza Unknown 15.08.2005
Miki Roque Lleida Unknown 15.08.2005
Jack Hobbs Lincoln City £150,000* 18.08.2005
Besian Idrizaj LASK Linz £190,000* 22.08.2005
Ramon Calliste Free Transfer Free* 29.08.2005
Mark Gonzalez Albacete £1,500,000* 20.10.2005
Paul Anderson Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006
Jan Kromkamp Villareal Player Exchange* 04.01.2006
Daniel Agger Brøndby £5,800,000 12.01.2006
David Martin MK Dons £250,000* 12.01.2006
Robbie Fowler Man City Free 27.01.2006
Craig Bellamy Blackburn £6,000,000 01.07.2006
Gabriel Paletta Club Atlético Banfield £2,000,000 04.07.2006
Fábio Aurélio Valencia Free 05.07.2006
Jermaine Pennant Birmingham £6,700,000 26.07.2006
Dirk Kuyt Feyenoord £9,000,000 18.08.2006
Nabil El Zhar St Etienne £200,000 21.08.2006
Astrit Ajdarevic Falkenberg £750,000* 11.01.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria On Loan* 12.01.2007
Jordy Brouwer Ajax Undisclosed* 24.01.2007
Francisco Durán Malaga £66,000* 30.01.2007
Ronald Huth Tacuary FC Undisclosed 31.01.2007
Álvaro Arbeloa Deportivo £2,500,000 31.01.2007
Javier Mascherano West Ham On Loan 20.02.2007
Lucas Pezzini Leiva Gremio £5,000,000 11.05.2007
Mikel San José Domínguez Athletic Bilbao £270,000 28.06.2007
Sebastian Leto Club Atlético Lanús £1,800,000 01.07.2007
Fernando Torres Atletico Madrid £20,200,000 04.07.2007
Andriy Voronin Leverkusen Free* 06.07.2007
Yossi Benayoun West Ham £5,000,000 12.07.2007
Ryan Babel Ajax £11,500,000 13.07.2007
Charles Itandje Lens Undisclosed 09.08.2007
Emiliano Insúa Boca Juniors £1,300,000* 26.08.2007
Martin Skrtel Zenit St Petersburg £6,500,000 11.01.2008
Javier Mascherano Media Sports Investment £17,000,000 29.02.2008
Rafael Benítez bought 48 players for £151,666,000.
TRANSFERS OUT:
Markus Babbel VfB Stuttgart Free 16.07.2004
Danny Murphy Charlton £2,500,000 10.08.2004
Michael Owen Real Madrid £8,500,000* 14.08.2004
Stephane Henchoz Celtic Free 28.01.2005
Vladimir Smicer Bordeaux Free 13.06.2005
El Hadji Diouf Bolton £3,500,000 15.06.2005
Mauricio Pellegrino Alaves Free* 17.06.2005
Alou Diarra Lens £2,000,000 23.06.2005
Mark Smyth Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Paul Harrison Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Richie Partridge Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Gregory Vignal Portsmouth Free* 01.07.2005
Igor Biscan Panathinaikos Free* 01.07.2005
Jon Otsemobor Rotherham United Free* 01.07.2005
Patrice Luzi Unknown Free* 01.07.2005
Antonio Nunez Celta Vigo £2,000,000* 29.07.2005
Milan Baros Aston Villa £6,500,000 23.08.2005
John Welsh Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006
Josemi Rey Villareal Player Exchange* 02.01.2006
Zak Whitbread Millwall £200,000 13.06.2006
Bruno Cheyrou Rennes Undisclosed 29.06.2006
Ramon Calliste Unknown Free* 01.07.2006
Robbie Foy Unknown Free* 01.07.2006
David Raven Carlisle £0* 03.07.2006
Fernando Morientes Valencia £3,000,000 05.07.2006
Dietmar Hamann Bolton Free 11.07.2006
Antonio Barragan Deportivo £675,000 03.08.2006
Djimi Traore Charlton £2,000,000 09.08.2006
Carl Medjani Lorient Free 12.08.2006
Neil Mellor Preston £500,000 30.08.2006
Jan Kromkamp PSV Eindhoven £1,750,000 31.08.2006
Chris Kirkland Wigan Ath. £3,500,000* 27.10.2006
Darren Potter Wolves £250,000* 18.01.2007
Stephen Warnock Blackburn £1,500,000 22.01.2007
Salif Diao Stoke Free 25.01.2007
Florent S Pongolle Recreativo de Huelva £2,700,000 04.05.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria Returns from loan 08.06.2007
Danny O’ Donnell Crewe £100,000 13.06.2007
Jerzy Dudek Real Madrid Free* 01.07.2007
Robbie Fowler Cardiff Free* 01.07.2007
Boudewijn Zenden Marseille Free* 01.07.2007
Luis Garcia Atletico Madrid £4,000,000 03.07.2007
Djibril Cissé Marseille £6,000,000 09.07.2007
Craig Bellamy West Ham £7,500,000 10.07.2007
Mark Gonzalez Real Betis £3,500,000 17.07.2007
Gabriel Paletta Boca Juniors £1,200,000* 26.08.2007
James Smith Stockport Cou. Free 28.12.2007
Mohamed Sissoko Juventus £8,200,000 28.01.2008
Lee Peltier Yeovil Free* 31.01.2008
Rafael Benítez sold 49 players for £71,575,000.
Benitez’s average spend is 20 million. Discount his 3 major money purchases before this season and that average was a lot lower. Considering the likes of Ferguson and Wenger have been at their clubs a lot longer and built it in there own image, throw moneybags Chelsea into the equation Benitez has had to go and buy second rate players with the money he has had. So take Torres, Mascherano and Babel’s fee out which was to the tune of 48.7 million, Benitez’s average spend is around the 10 to 12.5 million mark. That is not going to transform a club to Champions League glory. The signings that haven’t worked out are shipped out after a most 2 seasons. Wenger’s spend above is not correct how can it be when he has signed Hleb, Eduardo, Adebayor, Rosicky, Gallas, (Diaby, Denilson for big fees for players of there age as well as Walcott) Wenger has been building a new team for nearly 3 years now with money spent been a lot more than what is been made out to be. The players above would be akin to this.
Sorry its’ not going to transform Liverpool into Premiership glory.
You have spent more money than Man Utd in the last 5 years. Wenger’s skills in the transfer market have enabled Arsenal to put £430m in the Stadium project, something that no other club than Arsenal can achieve! Wait for Dubai to build you a stadium!.
Oh and I hope you go and sign Bentley so we can make money like we did when you bought Pennant.
Ricky theres no doubting Wengers genius but I would have sersious reservations about the source of your Net spending “facts”.
Fact is what wenger has acheived, he has done so on a shoestring. what all other managers have acheived has been done through huge investment. Arsenal probably are weaker than chelsea and man u but so they bloody well should be. Arsenal have no right to be competing with the big boys - we have been punching above our weight for years now.
Only now - with the stadium beginning to bear financial fruit, should Arsenal rightfully be at the top of the league. the fact that we have been there over the years is down to Wenger alone.
Alan, you ask: “Wenger’s spend above is not correct how can it be when he has signed Hleb, Eduardo, Adebayor, Rosicky, Gallas, (Diaby, Denilson for big fees for players of there age as well as Walcott)”
Let’s just take the starting line-up from the CL game at the Emirates:
Almunia - 1.5m
Toure - 150k
Senderos - 2.5m
Gallas - Free
Clichy - 300k
Eboue - 2m
Fabregas - free
Flamini - 270k
Hleb - 10m
Van Persie - 3.5m
Adebayor - 7m
Total Cost - 27.22 - a little over the cost of Torres
Juan, I did’nt make them up honest
http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=98956&sid=fca60da64b57439d86d4ff11f874ef15
http://www.arsenal-world.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=361343
Fine dispute the figures if you want, take them to be just a rough guide. the point still remains that Wenger has out performed every other manger in the tranfer market in europe
that why I cant stand Arsenal fans (supposesidly, although I bet they only started paying attention after the 98 season) calling for his head. As far as I’m concerned he does not have to win any thing for the next few seasons and I still would want him to be in charge such is my faith in his ability, and even if he did vacate the job I would still want him on the board.
I remember the days we were battling for mid table and Europe was an aspiration not an expectation.
everyone should have a re- read of Mitch’s post he makes some good points.
Wenger has spent more, Wenger has spent less. He did not have money to spend, he did have money to spend. All that matters in the end are the results. Noone is going to remember whether SAF invested 1099876 million in that season or not. Fact remains that neither Arsenal nor Liverpool have competed for the title (Premier League). Although Arsenal shades it because they have been top for half this year at least.
The media has started open season on Wenger. So now every well-established fact is open to questioning.
Utsav,
People will remember if he won the league, spent £600m and the club went bankrupt two years after. It can happen.
Everyone will remember any team who buy trophies.
Blackburn and Chelsea.
Chelsea should not even be allowed to exist as a business and if football teams were run like normal business and had to survive within their own financial profits, there would only be one winner season in, season out.
And it’s not Chelski, Man Ure or Liverpool.
Gazzap, this is back to the “poor little old Arsenal mentality” again.
Any team that can go out and spend money on the likes of Bergkamp, henry, overmars, pires, reyes, gallas etc etc isnt exactly punching above their weight when challenging for titles. These were all well established players that were being courted by some of Europe biggest clubs when arsenal signed them.
As said before Wenger has done a super job bringing through players that nobody has heard of but it seems to be more by choice that Wenger prefers to buy these relatively unknowns rather than been forced to. Arsenal have bought some top quality players over the years and just because their price tag may not reflect it they are still top quality none the less!
Ricky was Gallas not valued at 10 million in the swap for Cole?
listen facts are facts and if you cant see them and except them then there is no point in arguing them, everyone with half a brain knows that arsene wenger has been extremly shrud in the transfer market over the years and saved arsenal football club millions upon of millions while achieving and competing at the top level of world club football. Every clubs board envy’s arsenals board because of this,
in fairness its hard to compare arsene and rafa because they are not at the clubs the same length of time but the way things are going it looks like arsene is in another league a class above
arsene has single handedly allowed arsenal to prosper into what a football club really should be an inspiration to the rest and did all this without having to sell out our club to foreign owners, its remarkable
and finaly i would like to say to arsenal fans who feel they have to justify the likes of this article with a response, respond to this just for the enjoy, we have nothing to prove to anyone and in fairness what i can never understand with liverpoo fans is why are they bickering with things like this, is it so important to them that they are trying to prove they are on a par with the great arsene wenger even thought they cant prove this but shouldnt they be more concerned by the fact that they have NEVER won the premier league and it is almost two decades since they won and league title?
leave it so
I am an Arsenal fan, but I do find humor in the frequent bashing that the entire team in the CL game was bought for what Torres was bought for. I will be honest, with the exception of Cesc, I would happily see anyone off, who we had to sit on for 2 seasons, in exchange for Torres and his monster salary/fee. How many players routinely come to the EPL and live up to potential in the first year? That was the first sign to me that LFC might actually be spending wisely. This summer will be a major indication if Rafa makes the right step forward. No argument seems complete without pointing out Chelski when it comes to failed signings too. Arsenal will continue to operate without buying the top tier players and Liverpool will continue to throw their name in with Chelski, Man U, Juve, Inter, AC Milan, Barca, and Real Madrid everytime a top player mentions he is unhappy.
Wenger also has plenty of undisclosed fees, like the one with rosicky, he was probably 20 million.
When ever arsenal spend more that 5 million on a player its undisclosed.
Also how long does wenger want to use the we are still young slogan we arsenal.
No real trophy for 4 years now, but at least your play exciting football
The only team that have won a trophy so far this year are the Spuds (Mickey Mouse Cup)so lets not speak too soon.
Chelski, Man Ure and Liverpool could all still end up with no real trophy yet.
like your inept team tonight that cost less than torres you went out hahahahahahahhahahahhaha
Strange players purchased from Top Spanish, French and Italian teams are still referred to as nobodies. Arsenal it is true has a good Manager but he either rehabilitates or takes up and coming players from unfashionable countries. One should rather wonder how come he can get so many players from non European countries work permits.
Would just like to say that Arsenal are by far the best team in club football to watch by a mile,regardless of who’s spent or hasn’t spent what.
It’s all about ego with Wenger. He wants to be the manager who turns coal in to diamonds, he loves taking unknown players and turning them into superstars, and I have to admit he is great at it.
BUT! In a recent interview (maybe 3 months ago?) with a senior offical at Arsenal, I’m not sure exactly who, maybe the chairman, it was stated that Arsenal having been willing to make over £80m available to Wenger for transfers and he’s said he doesn’t want it!
This means he has done this by choice, not because of financial issues at Arsenal. They are after all historically supported by the richest fans in London.
Funny how big-club people seem to be over-sensitive self-opinionated hypocrytes. Maybe the Paul Tomkins guy spouting about bias reporting & spending statistics should also look at the Premiership refs decision-making policies. Even one of the red-scouse fans admitted shame at watching Stevie `G` and the rest chasing refs around making decisions for him. Go look up stats on decisions, penalties etc.
People in glass houses & all that mate. Get off yer high horse!!!! Yer gattin away with murder every week.
C`mon Boro & all the `little clubs`
You should at least take away the money gained with selling players as well… Benitez has spent a couple of seasons building a totally new team while Arsenal have added to their team, and even if you take further back Liverpool have been constantly building a team, while Man Utd and Arsenal as I said have only added.
Great quarter final though Arsenal owned 30 mins, and Liverpool 60 mins… 4-2, maybe it’s because Liverpool lined up with a team twice as expensive as Arsenal?
Liverpool were always stopped from paying too much for younger players.Ronaldo had agreed to join until the price for him was said to be too high for a teenager so United stepped in.Liverpool were going to buy Walcott but were stopped because of the price.Until last year even though Liverpool had spent more money than Arseanl, there was a cap on the maximum spent for a player which was ridiculous. I agree that this meant they had to buy sub-standard players.It may be different in a few years time though.
It also seems that Arsenal supporters are talking as though they are invincible.Oh, by the way;
Liverpool 4 - 2 Arsenal
And for those who like their stats:
How many Champions league Semi finals have Arsenal been to in the last 4 years? 1. How many Champions Leagues finals have Arsenal been in? 1. How many Champions Leagues finals have Arsenal won? 0
How many Champions league Semi finals have Liverpool been in? 3. How many Champions Leagues finals have Liverpool been in? 2. How many Champions Leagues finals have Liverpool won? 1.
Arsenal are a great English team(or is it a world team, i get a bit confused.Do they have a limit on English players they are allowed in the firat and youth teams?)A lot of them choke on the big stage though such as(Insert all of Arsenals first team here). Well done for getting knocked out yet again.
Also can you thank Bendtner for defending for us last week? I didnt know Wenger had told him he could play for Liverpool.(Does he count as an Arsenal player or a Liverpool player in your lists?)
Not only did Bendtner help Liverpool but so did two Refs.
I think it was clear to all in Europe who were the better team over the two legs but cup games are like this. Just ask Barnsley….or are they better than Liverpool and Chelsea?
Good luck to Liverpool in the next round. I hope they stuff the Chavs in the next round who again ground out a boring win.
What a load of crap.
Liverpool have spent alot of money.. yes.
but look at that massive list. most are for the youth team. Also the point was that Liverpool never had the big money, so would go and buy 2-3, £7-10m players but until this year, haven not been able to spend the one off big amounts. And thats the only true way to guarantee quality.
This year, Liverpool have added 3 expensive players and in the last 2 years, have brought lots of cheap youth players to develop and cut the need for future transfers! Arsene did this over the last 10 years and needs crediting for being ahead of the game. But the kids cost fuck all then, but now they cost more due to other teams realising that you need to buy them. So, as Liverpool are playing catch up on the development front… the players are being found at modern prices!! So it cant be compared.
while arsenal have plenty of ability they seriously lack a back bone, No strength of character, when the going got tough arsenal started to think of excuses as to why they were going to lose, it was a penalty simple as that, the question you should be asking yourselves is how did we allow ourselves to get in that situtation in the first place. cry all you like but the game is done now, face it you played well for 30 minutes then stopped once liverpool had scored, WHAT you thought liverpool were just going to lay down and let you win you play the full 90 minutes of every game 1 minute is enough to win any game. results speak louder than crys of foul play, whinning wenger complaining about the ref, the fact of the matter is if it had been an arsenal penalty there would be no question it would have been a fair decision.
get over it no silver for you lot this year
long way to go for liverpool to though. but at least they are still in it to win it.
It’s a shame that Ahmed Bilal decided that this article was written by him. He should at least give credit to the person who pointed him to this article by Paul Tomkins in the first place. Fair is fair after all…eh Bilal?
I’m a liverpool supporter and was pleased with the win last night know doubt. For the neutral fan you couldn’t ask for anything more, had everything.
I think the biggest problem which any new manager coming into the PL is success. Because so much money is involved these days, there is huge amounts of pressure to succeed instantly.
I will not lie, I think wenger is a great manager as is fergie of man u, but these managers have been around a long time and have learnt alot within the league.
The truth is arsenal have never been a european side compared to Liverpool or Manchester Utd, our records speak for themselves. For wenger to be classed in the same category as Fergie himself, he needs to win the european cup. For rafa, he needs to win the pl to be considered a true great of a manager. Yes he won some great silverware for us but he needs to be really competing for the league.
From what i’ve read so far there is definately some truth being written from both sets of fans alike. Wenger has spent wisely over the course of his career at arsenal but if some transfer are not being disclosed then its difficult to get the whole picture. I wont dispute wenger has done loads better in the market than rafa. Why would you spend even a few million just for the sake of having a player when he is no good for nothing? Rafa has bought alot of these but like someone raised the point before, rafa has never been able to truely compete when he was after true quality. But as a manager, its far better to save what you have and grab a player next year that will make a big difference, like torres. Wenger who doesnt usually spend big each year has always managed to find a gem or 2 and thats far more than Liverpool. Im hoping rafa can finally compete for the really good players but now i think it aint gonna happen unless liverpool win the cl. The yanks have less money that our previous chairman.
One thing i would be worried is this. If wenger actually accepts the money hes been given and goes out and does a chelsea or man u and pay big for proven quality with the cl experience then they will be a very hard team to beat.
I give rafa his credit in europe but wenger has my vote in the pl.
A quick assesment that took me 7 mins to write so dont moan if i dont have all my facts as i have better things to do than write on boards all day and night
Oh and as for the penalty decisions, the one at arsenal i dont believe was, think players these days tumble to the ground far to easily and thats probably why it was never given.
As for the liverpool one i probably wouldnt give it myself. Were arsenal a little hard done by? Probably yes, but theres been plenty of times when arsenal have been given something in their favour. It was our time. Thats football, its what gets people talking and debating. Our beautiful game
i do respect that arsene wenger has made some really good buy and bossman signs. but i think theres two points that we must have in mind.
rafa is building his own team, it doesnt take 1 or 2 seasons, it took wenger/fregie how long to win the league? also, give me a break, give all the credit to arsene wenger??! everyone with half a brain knows pat rice has been 70% to arsene wengers’ decisions and his scouting team is 90% his decisions!
our youth team is still settling in EPL’s pace and fitness; will flourish like arsenals in a year or two.
most importantly, arsene wenger hasnt won ANYTHING for four years. if u need a reminder….rafa has won loads in between. i dont even want to start listing it…
If you take in account the amount spent on a stadium which could have been available for transfers. Arsenal has spent close to 200M more than any other club. The purpose being to give the club the best possible chance of being successful.
Ask yourself, what exactly has Arsenal achieved in the past four seasons?
Tomkins is very bias ive been reading his aticles ever since we won the CL in 2005 but he always makes us Liverpool fans feel very good about our team
Paulpy, just for the record, Wenger did the double in his first full year in charge. That’s the Premier League and the FA Cup.
Wenger has not won anything for 3 years but this season isn’t over yet.
Rafa has won loads…..Loads?
The only trophy Benitez has won as in scoring more goals than the opposition has been the Community Shield. He drew the Champions League Final and the FA Cup Final and won both on penalties.
Hardly a stirring record and certainly not loads.
The two are incomparable and Benitez won’t ever produce a team capable of the double let alone two teams or a team that goes undefeated the whole season.
With the vast financial resources and differences available to each Manager as highlighted above makes Wenger’s achievements so unique and extraordinary. Oh and he has also produced the best playing football team in Europe at the same time.
“He drew the Champions League Final and the FA Cup Final and won both on penalties”……YA DON’T SAY TONY!
He WON…yea that’s right….WON! Fool
Only a fool doesn’t know the difference between a win and a draw.
They might as well toss a coin.