Wow. Trying to nitpick and make new arguments to divert from the issue. Pots, kettles and a dark colour spring to mind.

Look, you can’t have it both ways. I could just as easily say the same, and I’m damn sure if I tried to pass off something I said in the comments and called it as ‘just a remark’ you’d have gleefully seized on it.

I’ve no doubt you’ve got a couple of decent points that are worthy of further discussion but, seriously, you do jump all over, contradict yourself a lot and I have to reread your stuff several times before I get exactly what you’re getting at, and you’re the only commenter I’ve ever had to do that with.

Plus, I’d be probably more likely to sit back and be a bit more considered if I didn’t think I was being addressed like a brain dead spaniel. Perhaps it’s just me, and I’m overly touchy on this point, but, anyway, the patronising tone doesn’t help things. Any chance you could stick a comment up without resorting to insults? It’s a bit like punching your cat because you’ve lost your job: irrelevant and not constructive to the point in hand.

Anyway, that aside. First off, apologies that I didn’t quite get what you were on about with WW2. I’ve read that back again and it’s still the first thing that I assume, but I get what you’re on about now. Let’s leave that there.

I suspect we’re not going to agree on the point about Arsenal’s election. I’d love to know why Wolves and Barnsley didn’t get promotion. Perhaps their chairmen weren’t as good talkers as Norris? I know things were done a little different back then, but fifth? I’m sorry, I just don’t buy your argument.

Re: inverted commas… God, this feels so petty to even discussing semantics like this. I’ve read back the article. I’m happy that when I said franchising I meant that and when I used inverted commas, I meant that. And as for the new teams… that seems perfectly relevant to me.

Why is having five national leagues retarded? Once you get lower down, and smaller clubs, they often can’t afford long trips. Gloucester in particular will suffer for this next season having been placed in the Blue Square North? Keeping it regionalised below Conference makes perfect sense to me.

And these days very few clubs start right from the bottom. Those that have – AFC Wimbledon, FCUM – are making fairly decent progress. No team should expect to walk the league, they have to have the right infrastructure, budgets, etc. Those that reach too high inevitably fall back down. There’s a lot wrong with football in Britain. The pyramid structure is nowhere near the top of the list. If the 5 national leagues is so stupid, what would you put in its place?

Anyway, somehow I don’t think you’re going to be happy until I’ve self-flagellated to the point of exhaustion then renounced all my writings and vow never to put my fingers anywhere near a keyboard again. Which isn’t going to happen.

I also suspect we’ll be going round in circles until kingdom come, so I’m probably going to leave it here, but feel free to continue venting your spleen if it makes you feel happier.

1. I don’t see where there was an argument about humungous barriers to entry but it seems as with always on the internet those who can’t argue a point attack throw away remarks and claim victory.

Anyway the humungous barriers to entry REMARK refers to the point that to get a club from a small town into the league they invariably have to start from the 8th/9th tier and have to put massive investment and get very lucky to get promoted within a time frame of 4 years. We have 5 national leagues which is retarded. Basic economics!!

2. When did i ever say Arsenal were promoted because of WW1, you claimed that arsenal were promoted in 1915, but i explained to you that in 1915 there was ww1 and they didn’t decide to expand the league until after the war, keep up son.

It was a vote, any team was eligible Arsenal won, simple as, the fact is I never said it was different to talking your way in, however your paragraph didn’t make clear that the vote was legitmate, so the layman reader would believe Arsenal were voted in “for no good reason” as you put it.

3. you’re having trouble grasping what i said because you haven’t got a clue, nothing more nothing less. You used the term numerous times and only once did you use inverted commas, and even then with all your claims of subtlety it is ignorant even to use the word in the in the first place.

4. on your point on Point 2, (you are so slow), it refers to ranks of English teams in the average attendance chart. It’s quite clear, but ummm…

5. on your point on point 3, you’ve done it again, argued an irrelevant point. When the hell did i say you didn’t say they weren’t new teams? (although you said strictly speaking, when strictly speaking MK dons aren’t). I refuted your claim that both clubs claim the history when both clubs don’t claim the history.

See that’s the problem, someone has highlighted the flaws in your argument but instead of holding your hands up, you have TRIED to nitpick at points that you think you can answer or made up new arguments to divert away from the issue. Your article is filled with factual mistakes just admit it and we can move on!

Er, Arsenal were promoted due to WW1? That’s a genuinely new one on me. You’d have thoughts Wolves and Barnsley would have also been in with a decent shout. Anyway, you’ve mentioned Norris’ friendship with McKenna and said it’s about who you know… so how is that different from talking your way into the league?

Also, re franchising (and I’m having real trouble grasping all of what you’ve said as you jump around an awful lot), I’ve not actually called the MK Dons a franchise outright (and made a conscious effort to avoid doing so as they’re not a franchise per se but are the nearest thing English football have to one). I’ve alluded to their nickname (Franchise FC), and used “franchise” rather than franchise. There is a subtle but significant difference between the two.

As for point 2 – 22nd and 30th in what? I’m assuming not the Premier League. And re: point three, I’ve already said in the article that both MK Dons and AFC are new teams and Wimbledon as we knew it doesn’t exist anymore.

1. You clearly don’t know what a franchise is. A franchise is a segment of an entity “owned” by a third party in exchange for a fee and in many cases a percentage of profits. Think burger king…

Within american sports franchises are cartels. That is they have exclusive territory rights over an area and bleed it dry. This is done through price fixing (Salary cap) and keeping the product scarce (30-32 pro teams). If a franchise isn’t making money they move it to a more lucrative location. Sport comes second fiddle, hence why owners don’t complain if a team doesn’t win and they like the salary cap as they don’t lose money and everyone is a winner. All revenue is pooled, that includes merchandise and TV income. The franchises have an obligation to ensure the sucess of fellow franchises as it has a knock on effect on their revenue. (You can argue the same sohuld be the case in the footballing world, that is that all clubs should work together and look after each other more.)

Based on that MK dons AREN’T a franchise. They are an independent club who relocated. Same as any club who moves stadium, the only difference they were wrongly allowed to relocate outside of their catchment area in pursuit of riches but unlike american sports where riches are guaranteed to owners, in Europe they are only guaranteed to super rich. That’s not to say small/medium clubs can’t be run fiscal and turn a profit, West brom is a case in point, but unless you are huge to run fiscal you will eventually hit a glass ceiling in the crazy world of modern football (West broms glass ceiling is bottom of the premier league).

The theory of milton keynes was that given it is a fairly sizeable city which is set to double in populaiton by 2020 a club from this place run fiscally and prudently won’t hit the ceilling until the premier league where riches are to be had for an owner of a well run club. It was an investment and it’s a joke that it was allowed, but to call it a franchise shows your own ignorance. I know it’s parlane in the UK to call club relocation franchising but this is an article, not a chat over a beer.

MK dons are one of the reasons ALL clubs should be not-for-profit organisations owned by their members as is the case with German clubs and Barca/Real Madrid.

2. Wimbledon averaged around 18,000 in their final seasons in the premier league, similar to wigan. The difference being 18,000 in 1999 (22nd best) wasn’t as bad as 18,000 is in 2009 (30th best).

3. Both teams haven’t argued that they are the rightful owners of the history. MK dons were the “rightful” owners in terms of lineage, but they did the right thing and surrendered the history to Merton council (south west London) and their formation date is considered 2004. AFC want the history and hopefully they will be granted it.

4. what a terrible quote this is

“Norris’ feat of talking Arsenal into the First Division in 1915″

Arsenal were promoted in 1919 FFS as there was the little matter of WW1, a little common sense could;ve figured that out. Arsenal were also promoted “legitimately”.

It was decided after the war to expand the league, and in those days when it was expanded elections were held. Traditionally the bottom two (relegated) clubs were re elected and the normal promoted clubs were promoted. When i say traditionally i mean the last time it happened. However Chelsea who finished second bottom were granted clemency because Liverpool threw their final game against MAn united in a betting scandal, this relegated Chelsea, rather than United. Tottenham on the other hand were obliged to be re elected (as it didn’t affect them) against a whole host of second division clubs. Arsenal were the most convincing (illegal or otherwise)and were promoted. It is no different to the way teams had to be elected into the regional 3rd then 4th divisions until the mid 1980s. It was all about who you knew, and Henry Norris was mates with the league chairmain John Mckenna who just happened to be Liverpool’s chairman…

As you can see with a little bit of research you can make an alirght narrative into one which can inform as well.

Just to clarify i am against the way MK dons was created, but anyone can see the way the league is set up there are humungous barriers to entry for a small club. Lots needs to be done this was a wake up call of sorts to show us the direction football is going but no one is heeding the warning.

Maybe a few years ago.

As an AFC Wimbledon fan it must be because I’ve not seen the red mist descend with any obvious inaccurancies or MKD perpetrated lies!

Time, is for some, a healer but for some of us who lost our club – irrespective of the arguements surrounding that – we will never accept that entity should exist.

Think how you would feel if your club didnt exist any more (and there are clubs falling by the wayside this close season as we write). To me Franchising throughout the world is associated with the death of a team, without the thoughts of the fans.

Of course for other clubs, the real injustice of the MK move was the purchase of the League Championship place at the time – a place that had not been earnt on the football pitch by anyone connected with the enterprise. This also then exacerbated the demise of the local non-league club MK City which died within its shadow.

Certainly no club below them in the league at that time should have been happy. The years of trying to better oneself within the leagues was obliterated in the stroke of a pen.

Perhaps if/when Celtic or Rangers are parachuted into the EPL (Ugh!) other teams (including the Prem League team) even above where MKD entered will understand the injustice of it all. Particularly if it is their club that is displaced out of the chosen 22 (or whatever comes about)

Real justice for all of football will, of course, be served on this particular club when AFC Wimbledon pass them in the League Pyramid at whatever the level.

Then I suspect I and others will accept it as closure and also hope it sees the demise of the idea of franchises within the English Game.