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	<title>Comments on: Does the Bundesliga lack the financial strength to succeed in Europe?</title>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-109996</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-109996</guid>
		<description>The rule are the rich clubs, but examples like Porto and others are proof that money isnâ€™t always the determining factor in success at the highest level. Certainly helps, but itâ€™s not the be all, end all. 

While Schalke and Fenerbahce, both of whom made the Champions League quarters, certainly arenâ€™t struggling financially, they arenâ€™t up there with the buying power of the sides they went up against (Barcelona and Chelsea), but they certainly held their own. 

Itâ€™s true that you do need at least a little financial security and buying power to reach that kind of success, but with that said, Bundesliga clubs like Bayern, Schalke, Werder, along with Hamburg and Wolfsburg, have the money to compete on a high level year in, year out and to nab a European trophy here and there. 

There are the â€™surpriseâ€™ winners every several years, so it should happen before too long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rule are the rich clubs, but examples like Porto and others are proof that money isnâ€™t always the determining factor in success at the highest level. Certainly helps, but itâ€™s not the be all, end all. </p>
<p>While Schalke and Fenerbahce, both of whom made the Champions League quarters, certainly arenâ€™t struggling financially, they arenâ€™t up there with the buying power of the sides they went up against (Barcelona and Chelsea), but they certainly held their own. </p>
<p>Itâ€™s true that you do need at least a little financial security and buying power to reach that kind of success, but with that said, Bundesliga clubs like Bayern, Schalke, Werder, along with Hamburg and Wolfsburg, have the money to compete on a high level year in, year out and to nab a European trophy here and there. </p>
<p>There are the â€™surpriseâ€™ winners every several years, so it should happen before too long.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie Griffin</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-98148</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie Griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-98148</guid>
		<description>The rule are the rich clubs, but examples like Porto and others are proof that money isn&#039;t always the determining factor in success at the highest level.  Certainly helps, but it&#039;s not the be all, end all.  

While Schalke and Fenerbahce, both of whom made the Champions League quarters, certainly aren&#039;t struggling financially, they aren&#039;t up there with the buying power of the sides they went up against (Barcelona and Chelsea), but they certainly held their own.  

It&#039;s true that you do need at least a little financial security and buying power to reach that kind of success, but with that said, Bundesliga clubs like Bayern, Schalke, Werder, along with Hamburg and Wolfsburg, have the money to compete on a high level year in, year out and to nab a European trophy here and there.  

There are the &#039;surprise&#039; winners every several years, so it should happen before too long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rule are the rich clubs, but examples like Porto and others are proof that money isn&#8217;t always the determining factor in success at the highest level.  Certainly helps, but it&#8217;s not the be all, end all.  </p>
<p>While Schalke and Fenerbahce, both of whom made the Champions League quarters, certainly aren&#8217;t struggling financially, they aren&#8217;t up there with the buying power of the sides they went up against (Barcelona and Chelsea), but they certainly held their own.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that you do need at least a little financial security and buying power to reach that kind of success, but with that said, Bundesliga clubs like Bayern, Schalke, Werder, along with Hamburg and Wolfsburg, have the money to compete on a high level year in, year out and to nab a European trophy here and there.  </p>
<p>There are the &#8217;surprise&#8217; winners every several years, so it should happen before too long.</p>
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		<title>By: diana</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-97988</link>
		<dc:creator>diana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-97988</guid>
		<description>Kartik, I am also feeling the same way regarding the whole controversy of releasing U-23 players for the Olympics among Bundesliga clubs.  I had a feeling that the Bundesliga is not endearing itself to many in this aspect.  I don&#039;t remember the Premier League clubs (as far as I am aware of) affected made a huge fuss of their players who are bound for Beijing.  

The Olympics only come once in every four years, the Champions League happens every year.  Yes, I know both Werder Bremen and Schalke have Champions League committments (given their respective players Diego and Rafinha defied their clubs and joined the Brazil Olympic squad) which clash around the time of the Olympic football tournament in Beijing but the fact that the gold medal is something Brazil has never won in Olympic football (considering Brazil is the five-time World Cup champions) makes Olympic football even more of a big deal in Brazil.  Like what you say about Latin Americans taking Olympic football more seriously.

I come from Singapore myself and reading what one of our newspapers was saying this in its headline regarding the whole controversy - &#039;Brazil coach Dunga says clubs must have sense &amp; sensibility&#039; and the sub-headline is like a subtle reminder to the clubs - &#039;Clubs must work with nations and not just have own interests at heart&#039; (the Brazil Olympic football team was here last week to get used to the climate and they did played a friendly against a local selection here).  It may be big news here in Singapore that the boys from Brazil were here even if it&#039;s the Olympic selection (given this ain&#039;t happen everyday in my country), back then I had mixed feelings reading daily reports of what happened to the squad when they were here.  

Because I do also follow the Bundesliga (apart from the Premier League) and this is kind of depressing.  The football clubs may be the ones who pay the players their salaries, but they have to understand why their employess want to take part in the Olympics.  I know it has always been Diego&#039;s dream to represent Brazil at the Olympics but looking at how his club Werder Bremen is reacting to this (they are taking the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport even after the FIFA ruling yesterday said that players who are 23 and below have to be released for the Olympics and Diego is 23), I don&#039;t know what to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kartik, I am also feeling the same way regarding the whole controversy of releasing U-23 players for the Olympics among Bundesliga clubs.  I had a feeling that the Bundesliga is not endearing itself to many in this aspect.  I don&#8217;t remember the Premier League clubs (as far as I am aware of) affected made a huge fuss of their players who are bound for Beijing.  </p>
<p>The Olympics only come once in every four years, the Champions League happens every year.  Yes, I know both Werder Bremen and Schalke have Champions League committments (given their respective players Diego and Rafinha defied their clubs and joined the Brazil Olympic squad) which clash around the time of the Olympic football tournament in Beijing but the fact that the gold medal is something Brazil has never won in Olympic football (considering Brazil is the five-time World Cup champions) makes Olympic football even more of a big deal in Brazil.  Like what you say about Latin Americans taking Olympic football more seriously.</p>
<p>I come from Singapore myself and reading what one of our newspapers was saying this in its headline regarding the whole controversy &#8211; &#8216;Brazil coach Dunga says clubs must have sense &amp; sensibility&#8217; and the sub-headline is like a subtle reminder to the clubs &#8211; &#8216;Clubs must work with nations and not just have own interests at heart&#8217; (the Brazil Olympic football team was here last week to get used to the climate and they did played a friendly against a local selection here).  It may be big news here in Singapore that the boys from Brazil were here even if it&#8217;s the Olympic selection (given this ain&#8217;t happen everyday in my country), back then I had mixed feelings reading daily reports of what happened to the squad when they were here.  </p>
<p>Because I do also follow the Bundesliga (apart from the Premier League) and this is kind of depressing.  The football clubs may be the ones who pay the players their salaries, but they have to understand why their employess want to take part in the Olympics.  I know it has always been Diego&#8217;s dream to represent Brazil at the Olympics but looking at how his club Werder Bremen is reacting to this (they are taking the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport even after the FIFA ruling yesterday said that players who are 23 and below have to be released for the Olympics and Diego is 23), I don&#8217;t know what to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Kartik</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-97966</link>
		<dc:creator>Kartik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-97966</guid>
		<description>I can tell you as someone who talks to a number latin football fans here in the Miami area, the Bundesliga has done perhaps irrevocable damage to its reputation in the whole fiasco about releasing U-23 players for the Olympics. Ironically enough every player request submitted to a Premier League club was honored while only about half were honored by Bundesliga clubs.

Latin Americans take Olympic Football more seriously than the rest of us, and simply do not understand the stand of Bundesliga clubs, which is reasonable but they do not see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can tell you as someone who talks to a number latin football fans here in the Miami area, the Bundesliga has done perhaps irrevocable damage to its reputation in the whole fiasco about releasing U-23 players for the Olympics. Ironically enough every player request submitted to a Premier League club was honored while only about half were honored by Bundesliga clubs.</p>
<p>Latin Americans take Olympic Football more seriously than the rest of us, and simply do not understand the stand of Bundesliga clubs, which is reasonable but they do not see it.</p>
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		<title>By: bayern-supporter</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-97964</link>
		<dc:creator>bayern-supporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-97964</guid>
		<description>@Jan

Yes, Porto is the exception but I think that, letÂ´s say 3 German clubs are more powerful than Porto at the time and some of them (or one) have more chances to win the Champions League soon. Bayern is a rich club but not rich enough to buy players like RibÃ©ry and Toni every year although I hope theyÂ´ll do. I think Bayern is very similar to Real Madrid concerning the translation into action to be the best in Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jan</p>
<p>Yes, Porto is the exception but I think that, letÂ´s say 3 German clubs are more powerful than Porto at the time and some of them (or one) have more chances to win the Champions League soon. Bayern is a rich club but not rich enough to buy players like RibÃ©ry and Toni every year although I hope theyÂ´ll do. I think Bayern is very similar to Real Madrid concerning the translation into action to be the best in Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-97957</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-97957</guid>
		<description>Even with an improved TV contract the Bundesliga clubs couldn&#039;t compete with those gigantic sums of money mentioned in this article. That&#039;s a game for billionaire club owners to play. 

Those Rummenigge quotes also include a lot of lobbying. Another Bundesliga manager warned clubs may need to raise ticket prices. Another talked about the youth academies, which could be in danger (as in: think about the poor children). That&#039;s really just to spin the public opinion against the cartel office.

The problem here is, that Germany has Europe&#039;s biggest media market, but the Bundesliga has the smallest TV contract (of the 5 biggest leagues). So the holy grail is to find a key to unlock the potential of the market. The court ruling limits the options the Bundesliga has to design their rights package in a way, which would allow to increase the size of the rights deals in the long term. All the bitching is less about the new deal kicking in next year (on average clubs could have spent an extra â‚¬5m on wages or transfers, which doesn&#039;t change a lot). But with a certain TV schedule written in stone the league fears long term stagnation.

Anyway, according to the Forbes list, Schalke is worth more than Inter Milan, but Schalke&#039;s spending power is infinitely smaller than the one of a club which can generate huge deficits year in year out, without having to fear bankruptcy. According to Deloitte the Bundesliga had the second highest overall turnover of the European leagues in 2006/2007 and turned a profit of â‚¬250m (pre-tax though! - no money which could be reinvested 1:1). Over â‚¬100m more than the EPL. Serie A and La Liga haven&#039;t been turning a profit for years - they are more often in the red - while the Bundesliga consistently operates in the black. It&#039;s the club ownership issue again. There are also tax issues, as e.g. Spanish clubs can benefit from a 25% flat tax for foreigners. All those things won&#039;t change in favor of the Bundesliga with an improved TV deal.

Real Madrid have wasted hundreds of millions on new players and couldn&#039;t get past the last sixteen in the Champions League for years. So, you need to know what to do with your monetary advantage otherwise it won&#039;t help a bit. In the same way, you can build good squads with intelligent transfers and some homegrown talent. But, more money would definitely help keep such a squad together... 

Porto is the exception and not the rule. The rule are the rich clubs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even with an improved TV contract the Bundesliga clubs couldn&#8217;t compete with those gigantic sums of money mentioned in this article. That&#8217;s a game for billionaire club owners to play. </p>
<p>Those Rummenigge quotes also include a lot of lobbying. Another Bundesliga manager warned clubs may need to raise ticket prices. Another talked about the youth academies, which could be in danger (as in: think about the poor children). That&#8217;s really just to spin the public opinion against the cartel office.</p>
<p>The problem here is, that Germany has Europe&#8217;s biggest media market, but the Bundesliga has the smallest TV contract (of the 5 biggest leagues). So the holy grail is to find a key to unlock the potential of the market. The court ruling limits the options the Bundesliga has to design their rights package in a way, which would allow to increase the size of the rights deals in the long term. All the bitching is less about the new deal kicking in next year (on average clubs could have spent an extra â‚¬5m on wages or transfers, which doesn&#8217;t change a lot). But with a certain TV schedule written in stone the league fears long term stagnation.</p>
<p>Anyway, according to the Forbes list, Schalke is worth more than Inter Milan, but Schalke&#8217;s spending power is infinitely smaller than the one of a club which can generate huge deficits year in year out, without having to fear bankruptcy. According to Deloitte the Bundesliga had the second highest overall turnover of the European leagues in 2006/2007 and turned a profit of â‚¬250m (pre-tax though! &#8211; no money which could be reinvested 1:1). Over â‚¬100m more than the EPL. Serie A and La Liga haven&#8217;t been turning a profit for years &#8211; they are more often in the red &#8211; while the Bundesliga consistently operates in the black. It&#8217;s the club ownership issue again. There are also tax issues, as e.g. Spanish clubs can benefit from a 25% flat tax for foreigners. All those things won&#8217;t change in favor of the Bundesliga with an improved TV deal.</p>
<p>Real Madrid have wasted hundreds of millions on new players and couldn&#8217;t get past the last sixteen in the Champions League for years. So, you need to know what to do with your monetary advantage otherwise it won&#8217;t help a bit. In the same way, you can build good squads with intelligent transfers and some homegrown talent. But, more money would definitely help keep such a squad together&#8230; </p>
<p>Porto is the exception and not the rule. The rule are the rich clubs.</p>
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		<title>By: Twinkle</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-97947</link>
		<dc:creator>Twinkle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-97947</guid>
		<description>Hey, now i maybe a bayern supporter..but i really doubt the champs league from seeing their preseason results and the game highlights...2-1 loss to borrusia dortmund and 0-0 with cologne are not our results..but schalke did well last time..they are just a little weak upfront due to kuranyi who really sucks badly, so I am saying,klinsmann is to a certain point right but wrong ahead of that and good luck to bayern as long as they dont show another zenit to us...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, now i maybe a bayern supporter..but i really doubt the champs league from seeing their preseason results and the game highlights&#8230;2-1 loss to borrusia dortmund and 0-0 with cologne are not our results..but schalke did well last time..they are just a little weak upfront due to kuranyi who really sucks badly, so I am saying,klinsmann is to a certain point right but wrong ahead of that and good luck to bayern as long as they dont show another zenit to us&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Duffman</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-97939</link>
		<dc:creator>Duffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-97939</guid>
		<description>Excellent article. If the economic downturn continues it will be the clubs owned by private investors from leveraged take-overs who will be at greater risk than clubs that are in large part own by their members which is the case in Germany (except Wolfsburg and Bayer) and elsewhere. While contemporaries of Hicks, Gillet and the Glazers attempt to extract profit from their clubs, The Bundesliga will have the security of the 50+1 rule that restricts private ownership of a club to a minority. This is not ideal for every club (some clubs are agitation the League for a change in the ownership rule) but it does provide greater security in what could be very choppy times for football.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article. If the economic downturn continues it will be the clubs owned by private investors from leveraged take-overs who will be at greater risk than clubs that are in large part own by their members which is the case in Germany (except Wolfsburg and Bayer) and elsewhere. While contemporaries of Hicks, Gillet and the Glazers attempt to extract profit from their clubs, The Bundesliga will have the security of the 50+1 rule that restricts private ownership of a club to a minority. This is not ideal for every club (some clubs are agitation the League for a change in the ownership rule) but it does provide greater security in what could be very choppy times for football.</p>
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		<title>By: munichred</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-97936</link>
		<dc:creator>munichred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-97936</guid>
		<description>i hope this is true. Klinsmann always has the best words, but can he do it this year in the Champions League: become a perennial contender in his tenure?

And I also hope that Schalke and Werder do good this time around. Schalke I think got retooled better than Werder have, and as quarter-finalists last season, they can yet make another run. See, they haven&#039;t SOLD any of their core players...and they&#039;ve banked in on Holland&#039;s EURO 2008 revelation: Engelaar. I think that Bayern and Schalke will shake up things soon enough... I also think that this will be the domestic battle for the shield and cup next season</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i hope this is true. Klinsmann always has the best words, but can he do it this year in the Champions League: become a perennial contender in his tenure?</p>
<p>And I also hope that Schalke and Werder do good this time around. Schalke I think got retooled better than Werder have, and as quarter-finalists last season, they can yet make another run. See, they haven&#8217;t SOLD any of their core players&#8230;and they&#8217;ve banked in on Holland&#8217;s EURO 2008 revelation: Engelaar. I think that Bayern and Schalke will shake up things soon enough&#8230; I also think that this will be the domestic battle for the shield and cup next season</p>
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		<title>By: Bayern is the Greatest</title>
		<link>http://soccerlens.com/does-the-bundesliga-lack-the-financial-strength-to-succeed-in-europe/8610/comment-page-1/#comment-97935</link>
		<dc:creator>Bayern is the Greatest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soccerlens.com/8610/8610/#comment-97935</guid>
		<description>If this TV deal is going to make German clubs waste money on over-rated and over-price players like they do in england and spain then i say FORGET it.

I do agree with Rummenigge to a certain extent, in that the lack of financial buying power will make it more difficult to win cl and the article has indeed shown that this has been the case in recent times.

However, i do believe that German clubs can win cl becuz it not all about money, if that was so chelsea would be 3 titles in a row. Its about have a decent side and employing the right tactics and get a bit of luck. So it is still possible, just harder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this TV deal is going to make German clubs waste money on over-rated and over-price players like they do in england and spain then i say FORGET it.</p>
<p>I do agree with Rummenigge to a certain extent, in that the lack of financial buying power will make it more difficult to win cl and the article has indeed shown that this has been the case in recent times.</p>
<p>However, i do believe that German clubs can win cl becuz it not all about money, if that was so chelsea would be 3 titles in a row. Its about have a decent side and employing the right tactics and get a bit of luck. So it is still possible, just harder.</p>
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