Could the 6+5 rule revive the game of football?
Jack Wilshere could be the future of the 6+5 movement
Let me just nail my colours to the mast, I’m an Arsenal fan who is for the 6+5 rule, a paradox I hear you cackle. I’m a football purist and I believe that the essence of club football is that clubs are agents of the communities they take the name of, and that they should represent these communities to the fullest.
As an Arsenal fan, I and many of my Gooner mates love the likes of Fabregas and van Persie to bits, but if either of them were a Londoner and to a slightly lesser extent English, there is no doubt in my mind we would love them a billion times more. Just look at the love for Theo Walcott and Jack Wilshere. I am in no doubt this would be the same for fans up and down the country, and across the globe. For me it is all down to identification, and that is what the modern fan is losing. Clubs aren’t representative of them anymore and are more akin to American franchises, stock piled full of the best “here-today-gone-tomorrow” talent.
This is all why I hope that the 6+5 rule allied to the locally trained players rule goes through. Imagine every team with 5 world class foreigners, allied with 6 local lads battling for the cause. Obviously a slightly exaggerated, romantic and unlikely example, but you get the gist.
Seeing it from both angles
OK, let’s get down to business. I can understand both sides of the argument as to why the rule may or may not be illegal and contravene employment laws. It is after all in theory discrimination based upon nationality and restriction to trade. The arguments which claim that it isn’t, state that there is no restriction on how many non nationals a club can employ, which is total fact. However, there would be psychological restrictions, as clubs wouldn’t sign loads of foreign players if they had no intention of playing them. Thus, I can see it being a legal minefield that I’d rather stay away from.
What I think is needed though is for those who create law to take a step back and realise that football and sport in general is a special case, and that a free market isn’t always the best way of providing the most effective and fair level of competition. Similar to what the world is now seeing with the collapse of the overly free banking industry. There are some simple (non legally based) arguments against the rule and hopefully I can put them to bed by giving my opinion.
Quality over Quantity
Firstly, I have read on forums and in articles people claiming it would hinder non European football, I ask how so? The best non European players would still gravitate to the best leagues, which of course are European. The difference would be that the average foreign players wouldn’t, which for me isn’t a problem. Currently within England if a club has a choice between two equally skilled players one English, and one not, they are likely to choose the foreign player. For the simple reason that the initial transfer outlay is likely to be far cheaper for the foreign player than for that of the English player. Some would even argue that foreign players’ level of professionalism is likely to be far greater in general. With these advantages to signing foreign players removed, the disadvantage to average nationals would also be removed, as an average English player doesn’t choose to be valued above his market price. You could then say it is unfair to the average African player (for example) as he will no longer be able to get to the top, however the same can be levelled at any profession, the cream rises, the average stay where they are.
Cultivating young talent
Moving on, the one hope is this will force clubs to concentrate on developing their own local young talent. (This would be instead, of the current practice of aggressively stealing young kids from smaller clubs and promising them the world (Personal rant)). This is because as we know if the pool of available talent is decreased, the prices for them would increase. Simple demand and supply theory, and part of the reason why clubs currently go foreign rather than native. To counter this clubs would look for cheaper alternatives to bring English players through and that would mean concentrating on developing their own talent from a young age, and hopefully instilling in them the values of professionalism!!
The “Nationality” debate
This leads me onto my key question. Who exactly qualifies for who? This is obviously the paradox of the UK, however as FIFA has stated that it would be a special case, the situation is slightly clearer. This is because as is the case now, anyone who holds a British passport is eligible to represent any nation, think Maik Taylor and his representation of Northern Ireland. Thus Cardiff City wouldn’t be penalised for naming 11 Englishmen, and Ryan Giggs would be eligible for Manchester United. The way I hope “nationality” will be defined is that eligibility won’t be on a legal nationality basis but be on the basis of who you are eligible to play international football for. For example, Javier Zanetti who has Italian citizenship despite being Argentine, would be recognized as argentine as he represents their national team. However Mauro Camoranesi, who has the same dual nationality situation, would be recognized as Italian, as he represents the Italian national team. I personal think this is the clearest way of doing things. The only fear is that it could mean players would give up the privilege of playing for their national team so that they can be eligible for a foreign country, although the benefits of doing so would still be weighted against you as you’d still be restricted to being a national of only the country you chose to represent.
I have seen people say, that this rule is not football, when in fact this rule is football to the core. The Italian league had a foreign ban for 13 years after the 1966 world cup. Spanish football also had a similar ban during this period. And until it was legally outlawed in the 1990s UEFA had an 8+3 rule. The fact of the matter is the game (on the pitch at least) during these eras was considered more romantic and more in touch with the fan on the street and that is what it needs to go back to. When I say more romantic I mean, that International Football could be returned to the plateau above that of club football, and the exoticness we used to affirm with the clash of different styles (which in a way represented our different cultures), such as the Defensive Italian team, the technical Spanish, the flair filled French and the organised Germans could be returned to a point.
Of course if club sides took the identity of their nation, with a few exotic imports thrown in, it could be argued that the strength of the smaller European leagues would be increased, and movement between them and the bigger leagues would be decreased. The best Dutch players would still likely gravitate to the biggest Dutch clubs and then onto the biggest European clubs, but difference would be that only the very best would leave. Meaning that the good would stay where they are and the relative strength of the league would be improved. That is all theory of course. There is no real way of defining who is good enough to go abroad or when a player is mature enough, personally I like the way Platini is leaning on the rule that you have to be over 18 to go aboard, I would increase that to 21. I would also make it so you have to have been full capped by your national team, or have at least 3 non full caps. That will ensure that we aren’t still trafficking dross across Europe, and once again would help put the importance back at the feet of international football. Of course the last two points are just me thinking out loud, but they are food for thought at least.
Why do you support your club?
The last point I want to address is that of quality of football, and I do this by asking the question, why do you support your team? People have all sorts of answers to this from “me dad supported them” to “I liked the colour of their kit” to “They won the league when I was born” to “I like their style of play”. The final comment is the one I really want to take issue with, as a football fan myself I watch as neutral to be entertained but as a fan to see my club be the best they can be however they play. Thus if Arsenal fielded 11 clod hopping goons I would still follow them, as much as if Arsenal fielded 11 Lionel Messi’s The reason being, I am not in the business of being entertained. Yes I would love to be, but at the end of the day, I want effort and success however it happens, and I wouldn’t swap that for being a you score 5 and we’ll score 4 team that loses all their games and finishes bottom. Football is entertainment by default not by design. It is a sport, which just happens to be really good to watch. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying teams shouldn’t try and be entertaining, I am saying that this isn’t the entertainment business; if you want to be entertained watch opera, although for me that’s pushing it. The key is that despite being of supposedly poor quality the FL Championship is seeing a boom in attendances, and further from that, if it was all about entertainment, then 95% of clubs on this planet wouldn’t exist, because who wants to watch 22 average footballers kick a bag of wind around a field of grass, when you can watch, 22 finely tuned, lean, mean, footballing artists caress the leather with geometric precision that would make Pythagoras proud, I wonder!
To summarize, I can see no real problem with the 6+5 rule. All I see is advantages, in that it gives the fans what they want, and brings the game back closer to the roots which helped make it the world’s greatest sport, which if I am not mistaken can only make it stronger!
Ah another Sepp Blatter farce!
First off, nice article Michael James. You stated your point quite clearly and highlighted the pros of the 6+5 rule. However i really don’t see how the 6+5 rule will help football. England fans argue that foreigners in the EPL hinder the development of its youth system and thus directly affects the quality of the national team. Hmm let’s think about this. Let’s use Arsenal and Inter Milan as subjects for this experiment.
The Arsenal starting 11 contains no English players and that’s not due to the fact that Wenger doesn’t fancy English players. Not withstanding, the Gunners are still one of the best teams in Europe and most Arsenal fans will gladly win with all foreigners than lose with 5 English nationals. Same with Inter Milan. Apart from Santon, none of the Inter starting 11 are Italian nationals yet you dont see Italians calling for the head of Mourinho or the Inter President Moratti for the lack of Italian nationals in the team.
It all comes down to eating one’s cake and having it. If there is a cap on foreigners – cause let’s not kid ourselves that’s what the 6+5 rule is essentially about – European club football will suffer as players from feeder countries like Brazil and Argentina will be forced to stay in their respective countries. The theory behind the 6+5 rule is admirable but it’s rather crap. It’s just like saying Man City or Chelsea’s riches are ruining world football so there should be a transfer cap.
I am all for the 6+5 rule especially as it is sure to give home-grown youngsters more of a chance in the game.
And Michael, with the young guns you have at Arsenal you will undoubtedly hit the ground running.
But what of the Glenn Hoddle academy?! Could see him back in management – Sepp you may want to reconsider!
Last comment i promise.
It’s mildly interesting when one realizes that one of the reasons for the future implementation for the 6+5 rule was to curb the power and dominance of English clubs in Europe. I’m sure the scallywags at FIFA expected the EPL bosses to be all in arms about this but to their surprise the reaction has been positive, much to Blatter’s amusement i suppose.
I’m cautiously optmistic about the 6+5 rule.
BTW, Jack wilshere looks like he’s a left arm amputee in the photo above.
I think the 6+5 would be a great thing for football. As a yank my access to watching European football is limited so I primarily see EPL matches so here’s my theory on what would happen in that instance.
Right now, the big clubs can buy up as much talent from anywhere in the world they want, to the point they can buy players they don’t even really need. Some of the players riding the bench at the big four would be sure to start on most of the other rosters in the Prem. Given a 6+5 rule, the big clubs won’t be able to afford to hold on to foreign talent they won’t play and those players will move to other EPL clubs, b/c the EPL still has the best wages going.
Take, for example, Arsenal. They would hold on to their best five foreigners, and the others would be forced to find other clubs. Some of them will move on to leagues in other countries, but others will move to other EPL clubs. I see that as likely to raise the quality of the other clubs, in tern increasing the competitiveness of the league in general. Instead of your typical four horse race where you almost always know the players (this year is an exception), you’d have a much more interesting challenge for the league cup on a more consistent basis.
Maybe this isn’t how it plays out, but its my theory
Sorry pal but all that a 6+5 rule will guarantee is that more mediocre English players will get to play in the premiereship. What is really needed is a shake up of the way English Youngsters are coached. There is too much emphasis on the physical side and not enough on technique. “Get stuck in,” is too often the dominant game plan of too many teams at all levels. How often do you hear a manager praise the players’ skills compared to the praise heeped on the lads for giving 110%, 120% or whatever ludicrous figure the manager wants to spout.
i once hear Harry Redknapp say Ledley King gives 200% every time he plays – that’s once a month if i might add. Also let’s remember English players have royal blood lines and thus they are sacred and cannot be expected to sheepishly follow their European counterparts. How does 15 mil pounds for Stewart Downing sound?
opps.. i meant “heard” not “hear”. Although i hear Harry Houdini’s voices in my sleep – quite scary!
I think the 6+5 rule is definitely just a ploy by Blatter, PLatini and co. to knock the Prem of its top spot as the worlds best league, None of this was a problem when italian clubs are dominating but as soon as its the English clubs turn to take the CL by storm its “a problem that needs to addressed” This rule would be the start of a very slippery slope, although I can’t stand the idea of giving the clowns at the top the pleasure, I think 6+5 could work but it would have to be changed. A lot. For one players like Ryan Giggs should be allowed to come under this category (He’s basically English anyways) and all those who come up through team academies also.
Another thing, Has anyone thought of this properly? The impact that this rule has on the game could be astronomical, the whole way of playing football could change and become some totally boring event. English players might well end up being used only in Midfield or defence, as the foreign players are much more technically adept and better at going forward. And then what? England has a national team full of holding midfielders, and the same could go for other countries, Spain and Brazil only have attacking players , Italy only have defenders(as thats all their good at)… This isn’t just some magic cure for the game, messing about like this could end up a disaster.
I think there should be a clause in there saying that if a player has been at the same club, not in the same league, but same club for lets say 8 years straight, he is exempt from the rule, ex. Messi.
Um Bobmagee, i reckon you’re looking at this from a doomsday scenario view. Football exists on a different planet, exempt from Global warming and military conflicts, therefore the likelihood of a disaster is rather slim. The 6+5 rule would curb the culture of English football and thus the overrated shit player – i.e Bentley – will get better theoretically because he will be in a squad of shittier English talent. This could be beneficial for player Ego which will undoubtedly result in better performances for the National team.
Football is a TV worldwide business..
If you disarm clubs like Barca and Man U, you will end up with boring UEFA Champions matches and boring weekends which will in turn lower TV ratings, lower ticket sales, and lower the football economy…its a NO NO sir on the 6+5
bad idea. that is all
Funny that you advocate the rule, as currently Arsenal are perhaps in the worst position of any global superpower, besides Inter, to field a top side that meets 6+5 rules. But hats off to you for sticking to your convictions.
I like the idea, but I am a little apprehensive of it as well. It scares me that clubs would be limited by the players the bring in, and doesn’t make sense to me in a free market, but I see the ideas of it and things coul dbe better off…
“If you disarm clubs like Barca and Man U, you will end up with boring UEFA Champions matches and boring weekends which will in turn lower TV ratings, lower ticket sales, and lower the football economy…”
oh like the Champions League is really that interesting in the first place. It’s time for us to stop kidding ourselves into believing the Champions league is actually worthwhile watching. We’ve been brain washed into watching the same teams over and over again. The only way to revive the Sham that is the Champions league is to limit the number of teams that get in from the big clubs – and yes i know it won’t be the same spectacle – but it will make for more interesting scenarios. Imagine Galatasaray or CSKA Moscow actually having a shot at the Champions league. Now that would be nice! The 6+5 rule is just one way of getting the ball rolling.
First of all I am not against the rule but I have some questions though.
When would you implement the rule for the Arsenal’s and Inter Milan’s of this world? When would they have to have their 6 domestic players, 5 years from now, 10? Or would the rule be implemented in successive stages? It can’t be done overnight you know.
Let’s also take a look at the consequences of the ‘Home-Grown Players rule in the Champions League because it’s comparable with the ‘6+5 rule’.
This rule requires clubs participating in the Champions League and the UEFA Cup to have a minimum number of ‘home-grown players’ in their squads.
Home-grown players are defined by UEFA as players who, regardless of their nationality or age, have been trained by their club or by another club in the national association for at least three years between the age of 15 and 21.
The rule has been implemented gradually in successive stages (four ‘home-grown players’ out of 25 for the 2006/07 season and eight out of 25 in this (2008/09) season).
What this has done to Dutch football is that I have seen the brightest young talents between the ages of 12-18 being sold to clubs in the mayor competitions (for example then 16 year old Patrick van Aanholt from PSV to Chelsea along with 15 year old Jefrey Bruma from Feyenoord, Nacer Barazite and Vincent van der Berg to Arsenal, Jordy Brouwer to Liverpool etc.).
The point I want to make is that the 6+5 rule only shifts the problem and does not resolve it. Why shouldn’t Chelsea buy a promising 12 year old from for example Holland so that he could get British Nationalty before he turns 18 and could be ready for first team football as a domestic British player? As long as financial reasons are the motive for such a transfer would a young player realy care that he could not represent Holland anymore?
In my opinion there would have to be some suplementary rules in buying/selling youngsters for the 6+5 rule to be succesfull in the future. What do you guys think?
Well said, Michael James.
6 is just too much, it will ruin international football for smaller nations. E.g. pretty much every player from Ireland plays in England. Suddenly, there are no spaces left in the team for them to play. What will they do? Play in the piss poor Irish league which is full of teams already toeing the line financially? No they’ll find a way to get a British passport and they will then become illegible for Ireland. Sorry but by my calculations if you have 3 English players on a team that makes 60 guaranteed playing top flight football every week. Are you telling me they can’t find 11 players from that?
I love watching the champions league, I don’t know what your talking about Yomi, It showcases the best football teams in Europe, so therefore isn’t it doing its job as a competition of only the best? How great would it be to watch two crappy teams, with 5 good players each and the rest useless, slug it out for the title of European champions? Also there have been teams smaller than CSKA Moscow and Galatasary who have won the Champions league, look at Porto for example (Who beat Monaco in the final, another small team) and Rangers who made the UEFA cup final, they proved that small teams can win things in Europe so I don’t know what your moaning about.
It is inevitable in life that there will always be some groups of people in a higher level than others (financially, intellectually or otherwise) and football is the same, there will always be dominant teams but they won’t always be dominant, look at the likes of Liverpool in the 70’s and 80’s for example.
In fact isn’t that what the UEFA cup is for? to allow smaller clubs a chance to play in Europe? just take one look at that sorry competition because that will be the CL in a few years if the 6+5 rule is implemented, anyway, It won’t make much difference if the rule is implemented, overall the standard of football will most probably drop in the national team. Why do I say that? because, look at the likes of Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard, they are top class players, but only because they learned from the best foreign talent, can you name any top class english forwards Rooney played alongside for United? so if he played with someone like Defoe or Bent (or Crouch god forbid) do you think he’d be as good as he is now?
This “whole foreigners are ruining our national team” bandwagon is a load of rubbish, England have one of the best group of individual players in the world, alongside the likes of Spain and Italy (though maybe not Brazil) and they still have good young players like Agbonlahor and Young coming through so I really don’t see much problem with the talent coming through as I believe that if an English player is good enough, he’ll get into a top team regardless. This problem only exists because of how badly England have been doing in recent Tournaments, If they were doing okay then no one would be saying anything, yet the talent is there, only things like ball retention and tactics need to be sorted out and that comes with actually keeping a national coach for more than 2 seconds.
@ Bobmagee
“In fact isn’t that what the UEFA cup is for? to allow smaller clubs a chance to play in Europe? just take one look at that sorry competition because that will be the CL in a few years if the 6+5 rule is implemented, “?
What exactly is smaller clubs? Um, lets see PSG, Marseille, Dortmund are part of the G14 – you know the big bullies of Europe – but i reckon we both know these clubs have no chance in hell at winning any UEFA champions league thanks to the rubbish set up we have. Let’s cut the crap. The champions league group stage is basically over after 3 games and we are left watching dross for the next 3 games – and thats a bloody fact!
I have to concur that the UEFA cup is shit but so is the champions league OK! how about we have just one European competition with only knock out rounds – home and away. No more group stages and all that crap and i promise you the Champions league or EUROPA league will be a whole lot better.
Good article & well thought out responses
As a football fan not being from England I don’t have the same issues with foreign players in English clubs – I watch for the spectacle, the excitement, not to see someone from somewhere I’ve never heard of & possibly will never visit
Having said that I do think Arsenal & Inter are examples of foreign imports gone too far & I’d be concerned if my local team had more imports than not
At the end of the day it makes no difference to me where the players come from, as long as they perform
Whether 6 + 5 will address that is another matter entirely, although looking at their track record neither Mssrs Blatter or Platini appear to do anything that doesn’t suit their own purpose
To answer why the change, instead ask where’s the money
The G14? is that thing still going? Anyways, I really do think the CL is exciting, look at the Liverpool – Madrid game, ask anyone if they think its good to watch and I guarantee you that most will say “F**ck yea” However as I said before, I think 6+5 could work but it needs to be heavily altered to allow for academy trained players and to let British players be eligible (lets face it they’re almost English anyways, and I’m Scottish btw before people complain) Also I hope that it doesn’t come into force while Platini and Blatter are in charge as they’ll change it every 2 seconds to make it more and more difficult for the English clubs.
To Stephen Darwin post no.2:
Another person falling for the Arsenal young guns hype – until this “youth team” start trouncing top flight oppostion week in week out, will I believe that they are of substance. They have potential and credit is due to the scouts for spotting foreign talent at an early stage.
As for quality English youngsters. I’m fed up of people using Jack Wilshere to cover up Wenger’s history of producing English talent. The boy has only made one first team appearance – far too early to judge if he’s the “saviour” of English football. And yet, it seems all is forgiven.
If lucky, Arsenal will have perhaps two or three good English youngsters in their first team in a few years. Not exactly hitting the ground running regarding the 6+5 rule, is it?
To Richard.
You’re right, perhaps I was a little too hasty in suggesting that Arsenal would hit the ground running but I do believe the Gunners would fare better than most Premier League sides.
In saying that, I wasn’t attempting to cover up Wenger’s pretty woeful attempts at producing English talent. It’s for that exact reason that we, as English supporters, should be rejoicing when a young Englishman even comes close to appearing in a Wenger first-team line-up.
As you say it’s far to early to say whether Wilshire will make a big impact but with the 6+5 rule he will certainly have a far better chance of making an impression. The way things are he may simply end up as high-end Championship player with the amount of foreigners dominating the Premier League.
Anyway rather than grill me for my comments, are you saying that you don’t feel 6+5 would work in any capacity?
Sorry to have a rant. As I said on post 5, I’m cautiously optimistic that it will improve the number of quality English players.
I can see where ppl are coming from when they worry that the general ability of English players will suffer because there are less good foreign players to train with and therefore the Premier League will suffer. However this relies on the assumption that the overall standard of English players is much lower.
This is partly true, and it will require better technical development of youngsters at an early age. However even if the general technical ability of English youngsters improve, if managers continue to import cheaper options, then we’re still not going to improve the number of good English players playing in the Premier League. So you’ll probably need some kind of rule to say you need X players playing.
Football is just another thing to add to the new globalization trends were you consider that an English player and a Dutch player are both EURO players and therefore have the same rights to play anywhere in Europe. There is nothing you can do with that unless each club decide to apply a different criteria. You can do like Athletic de Bilbao who is only playing with basque players but that will most likely put you in a big disadvantage to compete with other teams.
Foreign players (both international and from a different Euro country) bring success and money to the teams. First of all you are gainning fans all over the world which is translated into huge TV contracts and merchandising sales. If Liverpool hires the best Japanese super star you know that the Japanese TV will be knocking on your door asking for TV rights. Of course this should be done carefully and only hire the Japanese super Star if it can really be a good player in you team. Unfortunetely true is that local players are often misvalued and at the same level the earn less money and they are given less credit. Just as example you can see that some Spanish players earned their best credit abroad (Torres, Fabregas, Xavi Alonso…)
All in all, I think each team should decide and aplly their own rules. As you can see, now Barça is mainly playing with local players and that’s because Guardiola brings that philosophy. Local managers will give more opportunities to local players. That’s a good way to start with. Unfortunetaly in England you really have a difficult work since owners of English clubs are foreigners…
Football is just another thing to add to the new globalization trends were you consider that an English player and a Dutch player are both EURO players and therefore have the same rights to play anywhere in Europe. There is nothing you can do with that unless each club decide to apply a different criteria. You can do like Athletic Bilbao who is only playing with basque players but that will most likely put you in a big disadvantage to compete with other teams.
Foreign players (both international and from a different Euro country) bring success and money to the teams. First of all you are gainning fans all over the world which is translated into huge TV contracts and merchandising sales. If Liverpool hires the best Japanese super star you know that the Japanese TV will be knocking on your door asking for TV rights. Of course this should be done carefully and only hire the Japanese super Star if it can really be a good player in you team. Unfortunetely true is that local players are often misvalued and at the same level the earn less money and they are given less credit. Just as example you can see that some Spanish players earned their best credit abroad (Torres, Fabregas, Xavi Alonso…)
All in all, I think each team should decide and aplly their own rules. As you can see, now Barça is mainly playing with local players and that’s because Guardiola brings that philosophy. Local managers will give more opportunities to local players. That’s a good way to start with. Unfortunetaly in England you really have a difficult work since owners of English clubs are foreigners…
I like the idea but alot as i think there is nothing at all english about arsenal and nothing italian about inter at all, my only few problems with it are i think ireland should be classed as a home nation, so they can be eligible to play in england after all irish players have always been part of top english sides.
I also see a major flaw and that is if for instance had an injury list like roma’s this year and half your squad is out injured, and basically you can only field what you can field because your scraping the bottom of the barrell anyway, does that then mean you would have to play youth players, imagine if in the semi final of a champions league you had to play 5 or 6 youth players, not good. So i think this would have to be taken into account maybe they should just bring in a rule in which half your squad has to be eligible???? .
obviously i meant half your team has to be eligible instead of, 5 or 6 eligible players have to start
Sorry I haven’t posted guys I didn’t realise I had even posted this.
@ Yomi
cheers, I think you don’t get it. We don’t get as long as they are good, a foreigner who isn’t good enough will get more abuse than an national, hence the booing for eboue. We’d take 11 superior foreigners but we don’t want crap. The same is the case for Inter. All the foreigners are superb, so there is no clamour to add Italians in. But mark my words if the r
Players in Brazil and Argentina won’t be forced to stay. Because only 3 are allowed to play in most leagues anyway. Spanish and English teams can only field three non EU players. So nothing will changed except false passports and those with them won’t be an issue anymore. It will effect inter European transfers, either the ones from the smaller leagues will return to their native countries or they will be far more evenly distributed away from the premier league.
I am for a transfer cap, I am working on a parity based article as we speak, so make sure you look out for it
@Erik
Great points about squad (roster) size. I think it’s clear squad size is high on FIFA, UEFA and the premier leagues agenda, 25 is the number they are looking at.
Your theory is right Erik, it will push up the prices of English players as they will become a more precious commodity, but that’s a good thing as clubs that bring more of their own players through would pay less.
@Dominic
mediocre players is not a problem to real fans of the game. It’s competitiveness we are after not quality. Manchester united winning 6-0 is quality but is not good for the game. If English players mean quality goes down then so be it. I disagree however Manchester united comply, and they play the best football other than Arsenal. It would be long term as clubs would have to work harder on producing better quality English players to compete in Europe so the knock on effects won’t be seen for 5-10 years, yes it may knock the league back, but when the premier league started clubs took the easy option of buying in better quality foreigners instead of trying their hardest to develop domestic talent, the opposite is true of the other major leagues, hence why our teams are “dominant†in the champions league. If we don’t have that option then it forces us.
@Bobmargee
did you read my article??
I explained the Giggs situation. Platini is not in favour of 6+5 so I don’t know where you get that idea from. Platini doesn’t really care England are dominating he thinks it will end soon and I agree with him, other countries have sat back and concentrated on youth, new stadiums and getting their houses in order. The second attack is coming. Blatter just sees it as the premier league is only dominating because of foreign talent which is 100% true. When other league’s dominated, domestic talent was used overwhelmingly. His big reason is Club football being able to build superstar teams affects the world cup, his cash cow. So he’s got an interest in knocking it down a peg or two.
I’ll reply to the rest of the longer posts in due course
Sorry the replies are a bit wordy. Let me just say I am now, not in favour of 6+5 not because it’s a bad rule. But because it is flawed and still doesn’t fully address the problems of lack of competition, as the big clubs can still horde the best English and foreign talent. Look out for my parity article which has some new thoughts and ideas.
@ free bet
That answer shows you clearly don’t understand what makes matches sell it’s not the quality of the matches. Most of the marquee match ups aren’t great encounters, what makes them sell is the names and the marketing of the competitions. The Spanish champions are the Spanish champions whatever there name s. Ticket sales won’t go down you have no grasp of football history. People want to see competition not harlem globetrotter extravaganzas, The champions league is considered very boring already as it’s near enough a closed shop. It’s “fans†like you that are the problem.
then it’s Arsenal till I die. Football was never a free market until bosman and was better for it, English crowds are on average the same as they were in the 70s when hooliganism was rife, and Italian crowds are down. Only German crowds are at their highest level, that’s partly down to the stadium boom and the world cup effect, and prices being cheap. Football needs to back to as close to the pre bosman days as possible, a middle ground would benefit the game immensely. But will it happen? Not likely.
@brian W
Well yes we are in a bad position. I am a football purist first, then an Arsenal fan, unless I am drunk
@ yomi again lol
agree with you about the crap that is the champions league, although I will probably go delirious if Arsenal win it, I remember how crazy us fans went we just scored against barca. London won’t have seen a party like it.
@ Thomas
rule is being done successively 7+4, 5+6 then 6+5. So you must have 4, by the season after they get the go ahead. That’s an if though
Platini has set the ball rolling on banning all transfers of under 18s internationally. The European clubs association agree and so do the EU. Now they are trying to make it legal. Both plans should be done in conjunction with each other if possible, but I now favour the locally trained players principle.
It’s actually illegal to trade minors under the age of 16. It is also illegal to tempt them to join before 16, as it is child trafficking, clubs found doing this face severe sanctions. The point is also that a promising 13 year old isn’t a sure thing, that’s why clubs tend to start paying money for players at 15-16. So I don’t actually see that as a problem at all. And the EU can regulate it if it ever did become one.
People might say messi, but he actually emigrated to spain because he had a bone condition, and was spotted by Barca a year or so later
@ L.E. Eisenmenger
cheers
@ Liam
Yes and no, it would help develop their domestic league. And if they are good enough they will gravitate. I favour regional leagues anyway, but that’s for another day. Irish don’t have a divine right to start at top clubs, players from smaller nations earn their spurs in smaller leagues and work their way up. Serbia, Romania etc. It’s not fair irish players take academy spots of English.
The point isn’t about national teams, it’s about teams being representative of their nations. In personel.
@ Bobmagee
No bobmagee it’s job is to be a league for champions of various European leagues. Not let the 5th best team in England fluke their way to being champions of Europe. It is an exciting competition, but it can be so much better, it’s too repetitive.
It is only English teams (bar united) Real Madrid and Inter that couldn’t abide by this rule. Spain has the talent and so does Italy. So your summison that sides will be full of useless locals is bull. Look at the champions league last 16 most of the clubs were domestic heavy.
Nottingham Forest wont he old European cup. And Galatasaray are a small club in your mind, they are in fact one of Europes biggest in terms of fanbase. You’re showing a lot of ignorance here. Porto are not a small team, they just play in a small league and aren’t financially powerful, and that year was a freak.
Rangers were vilified across Europe, they played awful and fluked their way to the final, once there they were humbled.
Liverpool weren’t dominant because of money though they were dominance in part because of luck and in part because of great management. That’s what people want to return to.
No the UEFA cup was set up for non champions of domestic leagues. It used to be prestigious until about 2000. Shows how much you know about football.
Your problem is you are looking at this from an English perspective barely anyone will suffer by this. Only the big spending clubs of England and some others.
implemented, overall the standard of football will most probably drop in the national team. Why do I say that? because, look at the likes of Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard.
England have a good group of individuals but nowhere near the level of Italy and Spain are on a different planet to Italy. England are at the head of the second pack. But I am not advocating it for the national teams sake.
That is not the case as my article says which you haven’t read quite obviously and have come with your own agenda. English players don’t get a chance especially when weighed up against an equally talented foreigner.
@ Bob bobson.
The money is in the player’s pockets. We have Jan-marc Bosman to thank for that. He ruined football.
@ Bobmagee
The g14 don’t exist anymore they have been replaced by the ECA. Platini doesn’t have a problem with English clubs, he has a problem with clubs buying titles with foreign talent which I do too.
@ Richard
Jack wilshere is part of the first couple of generations who have been at the academy for less time than wenger. They have been engrained with his philosophy and the level of professionalism required unlike players of past. You will see a lot more English players coming through now.
@ Richard again
I don’t buy the argument about English players suffering through not training with foreign players. People make as if they will disappear. It basically says a lot about our training techniques etc. Youth football in England needs a top to bottom deep clean and this could be a start. And also average foreign players keep out average English players for cost and professionalism reasons as highlighted in the article.
@ Marc from BCN
Athletic Bilbao have heavily loosened who they term basque it is a very wide net nowadays.
I agree foreign players bring wealth but the premier league has such a large fan base reforms won’t change much as other leagues would be affected too.
The reason why those Spanish players came abroad is
Torres was at the third biggest Spanish club who were mid table ish at the time. He had ambition, the only Spanish clubs up are Real Madrid a no no. And Barcelona who had Et’o, Messi and Ronaldinho…
Fabregas was poached from Barcelona as an agent told him he’d have no chance of getting ahead of Iniesta and XAvi something which still rings true. Mikel Arteta did too
Xabi Alonso was a sort after player and Liverpool big highest he could’ve gone anywhere
Yes we should not allow foreign ownership, it is not prevalent in other countries. Although rumour has it Real betis will be bought by the man city owner’s cousin.
@ Rian
Ireland are not a home nation they are an independent country, they should be given incentive to develop their league and not just farm players out to England and fans to support the Scottish big two and the English big three
The Roma point is valid, but teams have youth players to call upon. If you don’t have good enough youth players it’s your own fault. Arsenal have enough English players at the club, they are just very young and very inexperienced, but it’s a cut throat world.