In this case, the subject is the referee.

Diving is cheating, because the cheating player attempts to persuade the referee to punish the defending player for an act the latter did not commit, i.e. the player cheats the referee.

Intentional fouling is not cheating, because it is plain for the whole world, including the referee, to see that the fouling player has committed a wrong and therefore should be punished, i.e. the player commits the foul willingly, in view of the punishment he knows he will get.

There is a whole world of difference between diving and intentional fouling.

Same here. On this we completely agree, as it seems.

We’re talking in principle. There will be disagreement as to what was a dive and what was a foul, of course. But in principle, a dive shouldn’t be judged harsher than an intentional foul.
Also, as I said in another place, hopefully with video evidence the experts could agree on most incidents. Based on my experience so far, I’d expect it to be like this.

As I said, none of us can ever agree on what is a foul or a dive, even with replays, so how can this ever be defined. Your penalty is someone else’s dive and it will always be so. Same goes for fouling (deliberate or not).

But good exchange and I respect your points.

Let me put it this way: everybody who does this cheats, but is not necessarily a cheat. Not much of one, anyway. I feel this needs some clarifying (and believe me I’m not saying this just to be nice to you). The problem is that the system being as it is, it invites, it almost mandates cheating. Everybody does it so you do it too, otherwise you’re in too big a disadvantage and you might as well give it up. Like in every competitive system, you need good rules and properly enforced, otherwise corruption rules. And football is a highly competitive system. So I don’t view the players who do it as the main culprits anyway. *But*, this equally applies to fouling as well as to diving. This is my main point, I don’t see them as very different in this respect, and IMO accepting one and vilifying the other one is not right at all.

If everything was pure and concisive we’d have nothing much to talk about.

Different personalities and controversy make sport what it is. If you want to say that everyone who deliberatly breaks a rule in any game is a cheat, fair enough, but it doesn’t work for me.

> I … don’t really accept the term ‘deceptive’ fouling. In today’s game there very little place to hide in this respect.

This is plain wrong, as I already said. The evidence shows clearly that with today’s less than perfect, actually far from perfect, refereeing, a great part of PK fouls go unpunished. At least in top level football, but I strongly suspect that’s the over-all situation.