Are Liverpool good enough to beat Arsenal / Qualify for the 2nd Round / win the Premier League?
So, Liverpool are in a bit of a pickle. 3 games, 1 point and bottom of their Champions League group. After the fortuitious victory in the Merseyside derby and before the key game at Anfield against the Arsenal, Liverpool’s away defeat to Besiktas has asked a lot of questions from Rafa Benitez and the Liverpool players.
Except that there shouldn’t be any questions - or any problems with Liverpool. The problem lies squarely on the media, and their manipulation of Liverpool’s condition.
Every summer it’s the same story - Liverpool buy a few players, cut out the deadwood and there are whispers that they will finally challenge for the title. The core problems are not solved but the hype (and the money expended) grows every year, hence the abuse hurled at Rafa and Liverpool at this early stage of the season.
To be honest, Myles Palmer is just a ranting Arsenal fan here, drunk on a 7-0 home win against a pub team. Arsenal have played well this season, no doubt, but this is a big four game, and Rafa always has his men ready for a battle against the big teams (unless you’ve forgotten how Liverpool have played against the top teams at Anfield in the past, both Premier League opposition and those from abroad). Myles is playing to the crowd - the Arsenal faithful have been eager to primp themselves this season, something they pretty much deserve to do considering what they’ve been through in the last two seasons.
So there are 3 questions:
- Can Liverpool qualify for the 2nd round?
- Can Liverpool beat Arsenal on Sunday?
- Can Liverpool win the Premier League?
1. Can Liverpool qualify for the 2nd round?
If you see their remaining fixtures, and the CL standings, here’s the ground reality - They play Besiktas and Porto at Anfield, and Marseille away. Assuming that Liverpool win both home games, that’s 7 points going into the Marseille game.
Marseille travel to Porto and Besiktas in their next two games - not sure if they can more than 2-4 points out of those games, but with Group A a free-for-all, odds are that Marseille will go into that last game having 8 or 9 points.
Porto host Marseille in their 4th game and Besiktas in their 6th game - and 6 points will give them 11 and a way through.
Besiktas may beat or draw with Marseille at home but they will probably lose their other two games, leaving them with a max of 6 points.
So…Liverpool at least have the Uefa Cup to look forward to, and if they can beat Marseille in their last game, they’re through to the 2nd round.
There are many other permutations possible, of course, but Liverpool have to win their last 3 games in any case, and even then they’ll probably end up in 2nd place. The group is wide open now, I wouldn’t be surprised if Besiktas squeezed through somehow into the 2nd round.
2. Can Liverpool beat Arsenal on Sunday?
Can Rafa drop Gerrard to the bench and use him as a super-sub? That might be what’s needed to kick the captain into action. If Gerrard is in a genuine slump then there’s nothing anyone can do, it’ll just take some time for him to work things out. Maybe the missus needs a call?
Liverpool’s first XI plus playing at Anfield - Arsenal are good but rarely 100% certain of keeping a clean sheet and if Torres is fit to play, Liverpool could easily win this one. At any rate it’ll be a tight game, and for Pool’s sake I hope they play Kuyt with Crouch if Torres is still injured.
3. Can Liverpool win the Premier League?
Rafa’s problems have been discussed, but perhaps it’s time to point out that despite the overhaul, Liverpool’s squad still lacks talent in some areas? Apart from Torres, Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Carragher and Reina, this is an average team. Strong in central midfield but take Torres out and they’re toothless. Babel is good but will take time, Pennant has more graft than craft and four of the 6 names mentioned are defensive players.
Compare this to Manchester United and Chelsea, and you’ll see that these teams have several top players in creative positions. United have Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Scholes and at a stretch, Giggs. Chelsea have Drogba, Malouda, SWP, Lampard, Joe Cole. Arsenal may have fewer ‘big’ names (feel free to correct me Arsenal fans) but what they have this season is confidence and a manager who knows what it takes to win the Premier League.
Rafa doesn’t, not yet. Until he learns, Liverpool’s fastest way to the top is by buying better players.
All the latest football headlines.
Liverpool are like a very old picture of a beautiful woman (who is now old and full of wrinkles).
Liverpool supporters always speak in the past tense. “We won the League more than any other team”.
United supporters can speak in all 3 tenses; “We were a great team”. “We are the Best team in the World”. “We will dominate Europe and the World this year and in years to come”.
GLORY GLORY MAN UNITED!!!!!!!!!
Hey Emilio - wake up! ManUre have spent over £50m +Tevez and are behind an Arsenal team of kids that cost less than Rio Ferdinand.
Liverpool will lose to Arsenal because of 3 contests:
1. Walcott/Adebayor will run Hyypia&Carragher ragged.
2. Fabregas v Gerard will be a great battle, but the lack of defensive play from Babel & Pennant will leave them exposed to the attacks from Hleb & Rosicky.
3. If Crouch plays Gallas will struggle in the air - but Benitez will play Kuyt with a half-fit Torres and Gallas and Toure will cope.
2-0 to Arsenal.
Ahmed, my answers to the 3 questions are:
1. YES
2. YES
3. NO
No matter how shitty their form is, you can never write Liverpool off really (except when it comes to winning the marathon).
Yep theyre traling Arsenal, but thats only coz arsenal have had an amazing start to the season. Its still early days, only 2 points behind. Yes i know ur gnna say they have a game in hand, but u might lose it :p
1. No. Liverpool’s best would not be good enough to beat an Arsenal team playing at 70%. Liverpool would have to hope that Arsenal have an off day, and that they themselves play out of their skins.
2. Who cares?
3. No. Liverpool will never win the Premier League.
The only regret I have lately is that Liverpool are playing Arsenal this weekend. I would have like United to be the team to bring Arsenal down to earth.
The real challenge with Arsenal will be how the kids perform after they get a knock to their confidence that will show them to be not as good as the whole world think they are.
This article could have been 3 articles instead. You can expect Arsenal to come out with guns blazing (pun intended). They know that there are still a substantial number of critics out there that think they’ve had it easy compared to Man Utd & Chelsea so far, so the youngsters will be fired up by Wenger to prove them all wrong.
Liverpool know that they have to take back the initiative they had at the start of the season. I’m actually worried that this game might turn out to be more of a scrappy affair (which Liverpool are better than Arsenal at) than the kind of free-flowing attacking football we want to see.
Liverpool’s main problem will be that Arsenal’s goals have been coming from all around the park. Can they defend against such multi-pronged attacks? Defensively they are as good as Man Utd this season (i’m leaving out the questionable penalty in the Chelsea game), but Arsenal are not far behind in that respect either.
Offensively Arsenal are way better with a lot of their attacks building up from mid-field & defence as well as up-front & EVERYONE in the team has contributed significantly to the performances this season.
The important thing is that this the first ‘Big 4′ match-up for both of them this season. Expect both of them to put the pedal to the metal.
Interesting statistic for me -
Arsenal vs Portsmouth 3-1
Liverpool vs Portsmouth 0-0
Arsenal vs Tottenham 3-1
Liverpool vs Tottenham 2-2
Liverpool - Arsenal 3 : 1
(Torres 2)
I have realy liked your article,and i will congrajurate Mr SpiralArchitect for those statistics but at the end of the day the question is, of the two teams which one is the best in each and every eraa right now ?.this question goes to all premearship supporters around the world most importantly arsenal and leverpool fans .But the answer to that question when you compare the last meeting of those two teams when all are at their top is that Liverpool as never beaten Arsenal when they are on run like these days ,may be tolk of Man U BUT not liverpool .good day all
You sound desperate and in denial, who cares about Myles, he aint no Arsenal fan, now he say 1nil or 2one to Arsenal.
Easily win this if Torres plays, you aint playing Carling Cup now son. Sagna, Toure, Gallas, Clichy, what is his pacegoing to do? You wont know what hit you come Sunday.
Darius - u were a crap singer and even worse predictor.
Arsenal will outpass - outpace - outclass Liverpool on Sunday.
The beginning of the end for both Benitez and the laughable suggestion that Liverpool will do anythng this season.
Altogether now…
You won the league, in betamax, you won the league in betamax…
John, I have three points to counter yours (though I am not a scouser and I am praying for a draw):
1: Walcott cannot do shit against the better teams (he would struggle against Prem opposition and I would have played well against that pub team - he is one for the FUTURE). Carrager is the thrid best centre back in the country in my opinion (yes, better than Toure). No chance for Walcott and much depends on Adebayor’s form)
2: So am I to suspect that Hleb and Walcott (if Wenger is mad to play him) will do defensive work to counter Pennant and Bennayoun (Babel might not start)
4: Let us not forget that Gallas is not at full fitness either and Kuyt will have both of them running around his pet’s tail leaving Torres/Crouch free to miss in fromnt of an empty net.
Now I have on of my own:
Will the real Arsenal goalie please stand up? Oh wait, there is no such thing. If Steven plays and put s a shot on target then you are one nil down.
Ahmed:
1. They cannot not (yes)
2. Yes
3. Not this year anyway
Think tht Liverpool will survive in the champions league, but cant win the premiership. And the arsenal game has nil nil written all over it. Benitez will have to play gerrard on the right because of arsenals strong midfield and beyond that theres no1 really good enough to be able to break arsenals backline, seeing as it is the quickest in the league and torres is only half fit. At the same time because of Liverpools players in the centre of midfield Arsenal will probably strugggle to creat aswell.
Andrei - interesting points.
Hleb & Rosicky work rate is 1000 times more defensively than Babel (not wanted by Arsenal when he begged to join them) and Pennant (Arsenal reject who just wasn’t good enough but obviously is for you).
Walcott is coming good - yes not the finished article, but against Hyypia he will roast him.
Gerrard is great. Him v Fabregas will be great to watch. But a few years ago a young Vieira destroyed Keane in his pomp and Fabregas’s time has come - although to be fair, Fabregas pretty much destroyed Liverpool’s midfield a few times last season!
Kuyt will have Gallas running around? Really? Kuyt? I must’ve been watching someone else.
Torres? Utter class. And the one player I think Wenger would’ve loved to buy. But this is not the game to play if not fully fit.
Can’t wait. Will be a great game. But the truth is Arsenal have six-seven players who can score from anywhere. Liverpool have two and one is not fit.
John, that is not the story I heard about Babel and as far as I know Pennant left Arsenal because he wanted to (not enough playing time). But that aside I think that the reason neither of them plays for Arsenal these days is because Wenger prefers the more classical version of the right midfielder to the modern winger. Yes Pennant and Bennayoun (Babel might not play) will not come back to defend but that is in their game style and that could possibly keep Hleb and Rosicky in check, otherwise they will become potent threats.
To water down your excitement of the prospect of Gerrard playing directly versus Fabregas: it will not happen. Liverpool’s defensive misfielder will be all over Fabregas and Arsenal’s all over Gerrard. Keane vs. Vieira days are long gone and the game will not be dictated in midfield but ,as you point out, on the falnks.
Walcott - what if Agger plays? No chance Wlacott will be able to challange the big man. And also, if Theo does play then he will on the wing, not in attack as you seem to fantasize.
Kuyt - no, we have been watching the same player. He is not fast but will never stop running and making those passes that defenders just hate. You know… the one just before the defender comes into the tackle.
Your last sentence reminds me of something that happened last year. Man Utd had everybody scoring (excpet VDS and Neville, that is) and then they went to Anfiled (where neither Benayoun nor Babel nor Torres played. What happened? It was a scrappy affair which Liverpool dominated but in which O’Shea scored the only goal.
It will be a game which will be decided by individuals. Players like Gerrard or Torres or like Garcia in the past. Teamwork and clever passing - which Arsenal are great - will all come to nothing Sunday afternoon.
To any person who thinks that Arsenal will beat Man United to the League.
Arsenal are only first in the League because they started the season better than Man U.
The League is a marathan, not a 100M sprint. Man U is the marathan runner, Arsenal the sprinter.
The League will finish like this:
1. Man Utd
2. Arsenal
3. Chaelsea
4. Liverpool
Man U will win the UCL, League, FA Cup, Euro Super Cup and The InterContinenatal Cup. Arsenal will finish empty handed, as usual.
Karl i think ur only sticking up for liverpool because you want Arsenal to lose not because u think we will win.
1.If we win our last 3 games (which we really shud) we will 100% go through.
2.If Hypia has a great game and if mascherano does what he did to Arsenal last year i cant see a bad result.
3.I believe anyone can win the league. 10% of football is luck, 10% is skill, 80% is determination and the attitude. Reinas comments hurt me thats not the Liverpool way we dont give up! i hope he regreat does comments.
I dont think Liverpool will qualify for the next round of the UCL.
Pennant wasnt played by Wenger because of his disciplinary issues. He was caught for drunken driving, twice came late for team practice and so on. Eventually he went on loan to B’ham and joined them permanently. Liverpool vs Arsenal is going to be tricky. Gunners have to play hard if they want to win this one and I sure hope they do…………
1 word:
NO!!!111!!11!!!!!11111!!!!!!!!1!111!!!!11!!!1!!!!
Spiral, you’re right, I thought the same thing while writing it
Not sure about liverpool but arsenal will surely get killed on the counter by United. They will get a good kick in their backside for all their pretentions. The fact is that not only arsenal have no defence; they havent played as well as the media has led them to believe.
One question to all you doubters out there. How long will you call the Arsenal team kids? Nobody called Wayne Rooney a kid when United paid millions for him. All gooners know that this will be our hardest game so far but that said “The kids” should be able to deal with it. I must say it’s funny to see the United fans wanting their fiercest rivals to win on sunday!
Emilio - you’re too stupid to respond to anymore. Arsenal are top because they’ve had a better start? Brilliant Einstein! We would never have guessed. You can go away now and stare at your topless poster of Ronaldo.
Andreii - if Walcott plays which I think he will, it will be up front because he won’t displace Hleb & Rosicky/Eboue on the flanks. Agger won’t be risked. Carragher will need to stay on Adebayor so expect Hyypia to be hard as nails on Walcott until he gets booked which could happen very early.
Flamini on Gerrard and Mascherano on Fabregas - of course. But Fab & Gerrard are too good to be outmarked and it will come down to which one of them makes the telling contribution with assists and goals.
And confidence can’t be underestimated. Do the Liverpool players really believe they can win this? I don’t think so. And they will have caution in their game because their first priority will be not to lose - not to win at all costs. History shows us that when we’ve won the Prem we’ve won at Anfield, so this will be a nice yardstick.
What’s crazy is that no Liverpool fan can predict their starting XI from game to game - and that’s why you will not have the fluidity of Arsenal to win the game.
PS Pennant was shown the door by Arsenal by coming to training drunk. They were looking for an excuse though because he just didn’t cut it in all his appearances. I was sad to see him go because I thought he could be great, but he was never going to get in ahead of Pires & Ljungberg. Ashley Cole (his best mate) was angry when he was sold and that was the beginning of the end for that little upstart too.
I’m hoping for a draw but it could go either way. Arsenal aren’t at home and probably wont play as attacking as they have been in recent games. I think it could be a scrappy game but if Liverpool are to win MASCHERANO HAS TO PLAY. If he doesn’t play Fabregas will walk all over Sissoko. As much as I hate Gerrard he could get the better of Flamini. Although what if Rafa makes a surprise choice to play him on the right? that would be a real test for Clichy and his defense hasn’t really been tested.
Prediction: 1-1
Spiral,
This is not the first big four matchup for both of them this season. Liverpool (out)played Chelsea very early this season, no? You even reference it when making your points.
I think this is the first big challenge for Arsenal this year. We’ll see how they do on Sunday, but they have a way to go before we can compare them to the invincibles.
In my opinion, these are the keys to the game:
1) will Xabi be playing?
2) will Torres be playing?
if Liverpool are missing either of these players, arsenals job becomes significantly easier.
3) who will come out on top between fabregas+mascherano?
fabregas is (rather quietly) having an unbelievable season. his goals total would be impressive if he was a striker, as a midfielder its awesome, and he does so much else for his team as well. we all have seen what mascherano is capable of, and if he can keep fabregas relatively quiet, it will hamper aresnals attacking prospects.
prediction:
torres/xabi play=liverpool win
one of the two plays=draw
neither play=loss
rafa is one of the hardest managers to predict but i think it will be like this.
Reina
Finnan Carra Arbeloa Riise
Pennant Alonso Mascherano Benyoun
Gerrard
Torres
b-52 -
Thanx for the correction! So i guess the onus really is on Arsenal isn’t it?
Spiral,
I didn’t mean to be nitpicky, just point out that Liverpool already had a “big” game, while Arsenal’s schedule has been a little more helpful. This next run of games will tell us alot about this Arsenal team. I’ll be paying particular attention to Flamini’s performances, because Fabregas will need help against the bigger sides.
I think the onus is on Liverpool more than Arsenal. This isn’t “supposed” to be Arsenal’s year. We are looking at an Arsenal team that (with the right luck) will really reach their peak in two to three seasons, at which point I expect amazing things. In contrast, Liverpool were hyped like they were going to be all conquering this year, and although they’re still unbeaten in the league, they have dissapointed since their very fast start. Injuries are the main reason for this, and like I said initially, it all comes down to who is healthy come Sunday.
pennant is injured so maybe voronin on ur right & clichy willl get d better of him
arsenal to win 2-1
John G - No I wont go and stare at Ronaldo, I will f*** your sister
Hleb will rip Finnan apart while Adebayor will do the same to Hyypia (who is shite) and Carragher (definitely not the third best centre back in the league as mentioned above). Walcott as a supersub I think.
arsenal came up with an amazing start i cant deny tht. the match is at emirates, i cant escape tht either. but if benitez has the brains to put torres and kuyt up front with crouch as a supersub, mascherano, benayoun and leto (kewell as a sub)(somehow i get the crazy feeling tht letos gonna rock if he plays) then the only problem is hyypia whos been absolute shit lately. once thts solved i actually believe we can bring assenal down.
Hmm, this is a tough one. Granted, I haven’t seen Liverpool play much this year, but this is how I think it pans out.
1. I don’t think Liverpool will qualify for the Champions League knockout round. I believe they would have to win all three of their remaining games. At the very least, they would need 7 points. That then means that they need certain results against certain sides, and a bevy of things to fall in their favor. I just don’t see it happening this year.
2. Liverpool have a great shot at beating Arsenal this weekend. Will it happen? Probably not. Gerrard should be benched as a wake up call because he has been shit all year long. If he comes on as a sub, it would do him good. And in a one match play, Liverpool will give the Gunners a great effort.
3. Will Liverpool win the Premier League? They have as good a shot as the others in the Top Four to be there at season’s end. Everyone criticizes Rafa Benitez’s rotation policy, but take it from this Chelsea supporter. When the end of the year arrives, a lot of Liverpool players will be less fatigued than those on other clubs. Mourinho effectively juggled his lineup at times, and discounting some bad injuries, the squad was relatively fresh for the last stretch for the Premier League title. Expect Liverpool to be there competing at the end, though I still feel they will finish at least 7 points off the top.
I am not an Arsenal fan but I still think that Liverpool can’t beat Arsenal. Even if Liverpool is playing at home, Arsenal is way too good this year. I don’t even think that Man U (my team) can beat Arsenal to tell the truth. But I think Liverpool can definitely pull off a draw. Actually, they might even win if Gerrard does something lol
I agree with Liverpool_fan we should have contest: who can predict Liverpool’s starting line-up?
John, am I getting the sensation that you are confusing me with a Liverpool fan? Anyway I most certainly am not, in fact I consider them the second biggest rivals of my team (you can guess who I am supporting if I tell you I want a draw…), Arsenal being the first biggest.
Anyway I guess that I have nothing else to argue. So we will discuss matters Sunday afternoon if you wish (or even Monday). The last thing I want to say is that a lot will depend on the starting XI (which are very unclear for both teams).
My Liverpool XI:
Reina
Finnan Carra (name 3 better than him) Hyppia Arbeloa
Bennayoun Mascherano Alonso Babel
Gerrard Torres (although I want to say Kuy instead of Stevie G)
hehe, the ref plays too, u know… and most of these big 4 games are decided on the performance of the ref… lets hope its a fair match…
i cant predict the scoreline, but the pessimist in me thinks that it’ll be really really tough for arsenal… id be happy with a draw each in the next two arsenal games :P..
and i hope that even if arsenal do lose, they dont think its all over… the league will not be over even if we lose at anfield and lose at emirates vs manutd…
lets hope for the best…. GO Gunners!!
and id never start with walcott, will play a lone man adebayor with hleb in support and eboue handling the right midfield (to the best of his abiliities… keeping fingers crossed)…..
but in Arsene I trust, and i’m sure he’ll know what to do…
b-52 -
You weren’t nitpicking, just pointing out something important that i had missed.
I would like to add that maybe both teams have had a lot expected of them this year. Yes Liverpool need to finally get going & win the Premiership. But Arsenal have been dealing with ‘team in transition’ snide comments for the past 2 seasons & with Henry gone they also need to set out & prove that they are not a spent force (especially with a brand new stadium!)
i didnt know pennant was injured sorry switch pennant with babel even though babel was awful agaisnt Besiktas. If we had a truly word class winger that match on the left we would have won easy. I left hypia from my line up because of the through passes that catch him and carra. Arbeloa can deal with speed and passing so i hope he is played and i think he will.
Reina
Finnan Carra Arbeloa Riise
Babel Alonso Mascherano Benyoun
Gerrard
Torres
Gerrard scoreda bullet of a header this could restore his confidence and check out torres goals this season almost half of his goals have came from Gerrard Assists they have a good partnership time to show it
its not about stars its about teamwork simple as that.
you can win the league with average players so long theres teamwork determination & focus but TEAMWORK is key. Take arsenal for example how many “stars” have they got? but their top of the premierleague.
point is, with less rotation & over reliance on key players liverpool squad has more than what it takes to dominate the league for years & they have it in abundance.
im an arsenal fan & it pains me when i hear liverpool fans saying they need more “starplayers” or “we need to buy more quality wingers e.g mancini”. I mean u’ve got about 3 high quality players in every position including keepers and u still need more players.
for now, ARSENAL to get 3points at anfield and manu shouldnt bother turning up at the emirates…cuz it might be a waste of time..lol
fab serously though have u watched some players like babel, messi or Ronaldo? they keep they’re head down on the ball never looking around Babel need to learn im sure Benitez has noticed this after besiktas.
also most liverpool fans dont like rotation. we stick up for it because we hope it will work not becuz we think it will work. Truthly id rather see the same team every week with just 1 or 2 changes each week to keep players happy. So its not us u shud be trying to motivate its rafa (im not saying that in a cheeky way dont get me wrong
)
I think we have too many good players and rafa wants to keep them all at the club by playing them but realisticly if we want to win the league we will have to get rid of 5 - 7 players in january
Arsenal to win 2-1
Arseanl Adebayor and Walcott to score
Liverpool Torres gets one COME ON YOU ARSENAL
Liverpool_Fan, as much as I hate rooting for Liverpool (and belive me I do), I really believe you have what it takes to win Arsenal. Liverpool has a very good squad. Even though I believe they are not marathon material, I know that they can beat any team on any given day. (I’m just glad when they play shit
). Besides, you have an ace for Arsenal’s main threat (Fabregas) in Mascherano.
Resurgent Liverpool!! Torres, Voronin and Mascherano will take them to Epl glory…
We all heard that at the beginning of the season. Whereas people thought this season we will drop from the top 4 cos Henry left for Barca. But look where we are. We have found what was missing last season - goals from the midfield. Compare that to Liverpool..Gerrard is far from his best. Rafa’s rotation policy, as usual, has dented their great start to the season. The man doesn’t play Crouch for reasons best known to him.(Scored a hatrick against us).
I believe it won’t be difficult for us to beat them. Our kids scored six past them last season.
liverpool will struggle to find the champions league spot leave alone winning the ucl ….this is utd era…even though arsenal are fired up….we are going to show them the difference between the king and THE EMPEROR…….liverpool will fight for the champions leagus spot with chelshit
Well, Walcott did not start and he was rubbish (aka did not do as well as expected) when he did come on. Liverpool played their footy and Arsenal could not cope with Mascherano, a mind-boggling Carrager and a much improved Gerrard. The match was even and the scoreline was fair. (Arsenal Fans - do NOT blame your loss on the post!!!!)
Liverpool believed they could win the game (you could see it from their approach) and it did all come down to Gerrard and Fab, quite literaly, John.